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A student's prayer.
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Post by
Adamsm
You know.....I'm going to go out on a limb, and go against the crowd here and say....Good on the person who wrote the poem. Nice to see they still hold their beliefs tight, nice to see them taking pride in their religion, and even though I fall under the witchcraft line(I'm a Wiccan, what of it), they still have the right to say it.
Hell, it's not like the author of the poem is actually insulting anyone, but merely pointing out how they can't bring up any of their own beliefs in the public school system without just what they are saying happening.....or on the internet either.
Post by
292559
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
296147
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
gamerunknown
(not Islam's)
I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge, about to jump off. So I ran over and said, "Stop! Don't do it!" "Why shouldn't I?" he said. I said, "Well, there's so much to live for!" He said, "Like what?" I said, "Well, are you religious or atheist?" He said, "Religious." I said, "Me too! Are your Christian or Buddhist?" He said, "Christian." I said, "Me too! Are you Catholic or Protestant?" He said, "Protestant." I said, Me too! Are your Episcopalian or Baptist? He said, "Baptist!" I said, "Wow! Me too! Are your Baptist Church of God or Baptist Church of the Lord? He said, Baptist Church of God!" I said, "Me too! Are your Original Baptist Church of God or are you Reformed Baptist Church of God?" He said, "Reformed Baptist Church of God!" I said, "Me too! Are you Reformed Baptist Church of God, Reformation of 1879, or Reformed Baptist Church of God, Reformation of 1915?" He said, "Reformed Baptist Church of God, Reformation of 1915!" I said, "Die, heretic scum!" and pushed him off.
without just what they are saying happening
Nooobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!
Post by
Atik
You know.....I'm going to go out on a limb, and go against the crowd here and say....Good on the person who wrote the poem. Nice to see they still hold their beliefs tight, nice to see them taking pride in their religion, and even though I fall under the witchcraft line(I'm a Wiccan, what of it), they still have the right to say it.
Hell, it's not like the author of the poem is actually insulting anyone, but merely pointing out how they can't bring up any of their own beliefs in the public school system without just what they are saying happening.....or on the internet either.
Except they can bring up their beliefs in school. Their beliefs are supported in most public schools, as the vast majority of teachers will more than likely agree with them.
The reason we are bashing it isn't because of the beliefs... well okay, yeah, I'm bashing it for that. But not the point.
We are bashing it because it is so full of bull%^&* the text should be brown.
Post by
Orranis
<Win>
Now I sit me down to whine, of oppression against my religious kind.
For prayer in schools is banned, you see. Or I suppose it isn't, not technically,
But I'm angry that teachers can't lead the prayer. We students can't pray anywhere!
Except private schools or church, I guess. Or pretty much anywhere, more or less,
Since praying in schools isn't really barred. But being precise about stuff is hard!
Anyway students need verses and psalms. (Christian ones obviously, not Islam's!)
And we can agree there's benefit when, public schools teach the commandments ten.
For what's more relevant to modern classes, than keeping the sabbath and coveting asses?
And "no other gods before me" in particular. That
totally makes sense
for public curricula!
Still I pray for the day when each school lesson plan, Shall not fail to address the Invisible Man.
Amen.
</Win>
</Thread>
Post by
Sweetscot
Ugh I remember when I first saw this piece of garbage in the 90s, at the time I somewhat understood as certain aspects of seperation of church and state where going into affect in my area and people's "norm" was being changed which isn't always easy even if the change is for the better...but now? Get the hell over it already! I know I do not want some teacher at school trying to "teach" my child religeon, if i feel the need to shove my beliefs down his throat day in and day out I can homeschool him. You can still pray at school (you just can't make other people do it) you also aren't allowed to cuss, many schools prohibit wild hair colors, etc etc etc. The whole thing is bologna. Also +2342348975245098 internetz to the author of the retaliatory poem, that was awesome!
Post by
pezz
I'd be interested to see links to things that show which poems are right in which circumstances.
Also, just to say it again. Get rid of state-run schools and you get rid of the problem.
Post by
gamerunknown
Get rid of state-run schools and you get rid of the problem.
The US comes behind Kazakhstan in adult literacy rates. Do you think that literacy rates were higher when children were put to work instead of attending school?
I was under the impression that privately funded religious schools were free for those that professed the faith. If not, the religious that can't afford to send their children to privately funded religious schools will be just as disadvantaged. Though I'm sure the Young Earth Creationists would be happy: there would be a lot more praying and a lot less learning.
Edit: Error.
Post by
Adamsm
You know.....I'm going to go out on a limb, and go against the crowd here and say....Good on the person who wrote the poem. Nice to see they still hold their beliefs tight, nice to see them taking pride in their religion, and even though I fall under the witchcraft line(I'm a Wiccan, what of it), they still have the right to say it.
Hell, it's not like the author of the poem is actually insulting anyone, but merely pointing out how they can't bring up any of their own beliefs in the public school system without just what they are saying happening.....or on the internet either.
Except they can bring up their beliefs in school. Their beliefs are supported in most public schools, as the vast majority of teachers will more than likely agree with them.
The reason we are bashing it isn't because of the beliefs... well okay, yeah, I'm bashing it for that. But not the point.
We are bashing it because it is so full of bull%^&* the text should be brown.
And yet you prove the author of the poem right.....
Post by
Atik
How so? If a kid started wanting to pray in my school, I would have been the only person &*!@#ing about it.
I'm proving it wrong. As I, as an athiest, was a minority in school, as with most school systems. As most children currently are being raised christian and do not take a look and make an informed decision until later in life, if at all.
Post by
168916
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
134377
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
134377
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
pezz
Get rid of state-run schools and you get rid of the problem.
The US comes behind Kazakhstan in adult literacy rates. Do you think that literacy rates were higher when children were put to work instead of attending school?
I was under the impression that privately funded religious schools were free for those that professed the faith. If not, the religious that can't afford to send their children to privately funded religious schools will be just as disadvantaged. Though I'm sure the Young Earth Creationists would be happy: there would be a lot more praying and a lot less learning.
Edit: Error.
1) You could still require a minimum amount of schooling by law, if you wanted. Just as you can require people to have insurance (if they want to drive) without every car insurance company being a public company.
2) You could still subsidize education. Give families a voucher to spend on education at the
privately owned and operated
school of their choice.
Here's a blog post by a guy I kind of know.
He points out something worth realizing, which is that education definitely has external economies, but it isn't a public good. A public good can't possibly be exclusive, but you can easily bar people from education. Every university rejection letter is proof that education is not technically a public good.
I agree that our country's literacy is abysmal. I also think it's worth noting just how long we've had the government conducting the education of the lion share of our youth.
Post by
ElhonnaDS
I agree that there needs to be a lot more attention paid to education. I read somewhere that something like 47% of the adult population can't read in Detroit. That's ridiculous.
On Topic:
Fenomas beat me to writing a counter-poem, and in all honesty he did it much better than I would have.
I guess my question is, for the OP (as it was in the sentencing people to church instead of jail thread)- would you be ok, if the religion that was state supported wasn't yours? Would you be alright with them forcing Hebrew prayer in public school, or pausing classes 5 times a day and requiring all the children to pray facing Mecca? Would you be ok with that, as long as your child was allowed to sit there, and not participate, even if it meant he was singled out to his peers for ridicule? Would you be alright with him coming home and asking you why your family had the "wrong" religion, or why everyone else believed one thing and you believed something else? Would you feel the state was trying to do something good in the schools, and improve morality, by teaching your student that the words of the Quran were correct, and that he needed to learn the lessons in it to be a good person? Would you, as a parent, want to go to a football game and be asked to participate in an opening prayer led by a Bhuddist Monk?
Just wondering if your opinion is the same when it's not your religion being advocated in the schools, or if it's only fair when it's your beliefs that are being treated favorably.
Post by
238331
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
That's not the Magician's views, just something he linked from Facebook.
Post by
Atik
That's not the Magician's views, just something he linked from Facebook.
But, judging by his post in the other thread, and his own statement at the beginning of his post, it seems like he agrees.
Post by
gamerunknown
1) You could still require a minimum amount of schooling by law, if you wanted. Just as you can require people to have insurance (if they want to drive) without every car insurance company being a public company.
2) You could still subsidize education. Give families a voucher to spend on education at the privately owned and operated school of their choice.
Here's a blog post by a guy I kind of know. He points out something worth realizing, which is that education definitely has external economies, but it isn't a public good. A public good can't possibly be exclusive, but you can easily bar people from education. Every university rejection letter is proof that education is not technically a public good.
Externalising the problem. Assuming the poor people pay no more than typically, one is just creating the same uneven distribution, but the school has to take even greater financial considerations. Likely, the children of parents that donate the most to the school will be given preferential treatment - the school's commitment shifts from providing an education for the children to remaining profitable. I fail to see how this would benefit the majority of people.
The other issues are that of uniformity: the curriculum will likely be radically different in Georgia than in Massachusetts say, not to mention that those attending schools in poor areas will be even more disadvantaged.
As for whether it constitutes a public good: there is a negative correlation between education and illiteracy,
divorce
,
crime
and
unemployment.
These are huge benefits to society
that everyone reaps
. A literacy rate of only 99% is considered a chagrin by society now, but before compulsory schooling, one study of printed text saturation in the population showed that the literacy rate in 1850 was just 50%. Compulsory education is also fundamental in the emancipation of women - should education be privatised and not regulated by a central authority, almost a century of progress could go to waste in states like Utah.
Edit: After following the link, should the only schools in the area be a religious type of another denomination, one will not only not have the freedom to pray as one wants, one may be assigned to damnation for even saying prayers in one's head. I was under the impression that economic liberals were in favour of more freedom of choice! I also picked up hints of Rand ("exploit the producers in society"), whom I think only works with eugenics. Smith only works if the "invisible hand" holds up, where it largely doesn't as in the London riots, Somalia, or the Baltimore police strike.
Double edit:
Under thy patronage, dear Mother, and calling on the mystery of thine Immaculate Conception, I desire to pursue my studies and my literary labors: I hereby solemnly declare that I am giving myself to these studies chiefly to the following end: that I may the better contribute to the glory of God and to the promotion of thy veneration among men. I pray thee, therefore, most loving Mother, who art the Seat of Wisdom, to bless my labors in thy loving-kindness. Moreover I promise with true affection and a willing spirit, as it is right that I should do, to ascribe all the good that shall come to me therefrom, wholly to thine intercession for me in God's holy presence. Amen.
I'm a stickler for tradition and I find that prayer quite a bit less objectionable.
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