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New Warchief?
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Post by
Rankkor
I know that there's no proof.
However, no one actually said they were all innocent.
The facts did. Fanlyr Silverthorn was behind the whole thing, and Aethas was in no way behind anything at all, one of the horde quests consists of ask him to help the horde AND HE REFUSES.
Plus, they were perfectly complicit with everything up to that point involving the horde.
Acording to you? yes, acording to the game? NO.
The Kirin Tor remained neutral during the entire war of the alliance and the horde, after the lich king was defeated NOT A SINGLE SUNREAVER TROOP was spotted in the cataclysm conflict, so no, they were not complicit in anything, they were above all members of the Kirin Tor. Who then got backstabbed for a crime they did not comitted.
And of course, those muderous bastards razed theramoore,
now you're talking apples and oranges, SILVERMOON blood elves are not the same as SUNREAVER BLOOD ELVES. What part of that is so hard for you to understand? would it be fair that I blamed the stormwind humans for actions done by the Defias? or the Scarlet Crusade? Would it be fair to blame Ironforge of what the Dark irons did?.
Durign the attack on theramoore EVERYONE on the horde did as they were told at gunpoint because garrosh would execute you fi you didn't ,but EVERY SINGLE LEADER disapproved of that attack, and were utterly against it.
But even on this entire schtick, it still has ZERO to do with the sunreavers, because, while still blood elves, their allegiance was to the Kirin Tor, NOT the horde. In fact, when the Kirin Tor was voting on whether or not to send help for the alliance in theramoore, the voting was a stalemate, wanna know who casted the vote that broke the stalemate and actually got the Kirin Tor to aid the alliance? that's right babe, the Sunreavers.
In fact, during the entire MoP campaign, Aethas has been pushing lor'themar to abandon the horde and rejoin the alliance, and was willing to serve as liaison between stormwind and silvermoon to make it happen.
So for the love of all that's holy, STOP PLAYING DUMB AND PRETENDING THAT THEY HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH THERAMOORE OR THE DIVINE BELL.
the
GODAMN LAST REMAINING PEOPLE OF LORADERON WERE THERE. DO YOU UNDERSTAND?
THE GODDAMN LAST REMAINING PEOPLE OF LORDAERON ESCAPED BEFORE THE BLAST, THANKS TO BAINE WHO WARNED THEM DAYS BEFORE THE ATTACK EVEN BEGAN!. DO YOU UNDERSTAND?
Post by
Lordplatypus
Thanks for the reality check there light
And rank? I'm already done with you
Post by
Adamsm
And of course, those muderous bastards razed theramoore, the
GODAMN LAST REMAINING PEOPLE OF LORADERON WERE THERE. DO YOU UNDERSTAND?
Actually.....
No they didn't
. That was Garrosh and the Horde, not the Sunreavers. One traitor does not the entire race cast into darkness, or else you could claim that all Humans are traitorous dogs because Alterac turned on the rest of the Grand Alliance waaaaaaaay back in Warcraft 2. Seriously, chill the hell out, dial back the bias by about a thousand, and understand that the entire Sunreaver group was not part of the Mana Bomb plot, or the plot to steal the Divine Bell.
Post by
Rankkor
And rank? I'm already done with you
uhuh,not so fast buck, you REALLY love to bring this topic up EVERY TIME the blood elves are mentioned, so........ anytime you bring up this topic again, I'll be there to lay down the bitter truth you're working so hard to pretend that doesn't exists.
The sunreavers were innocent of what they were accused, the alliance still killed and imprisoned them, civilians included.
There's nothing you can do to change that. And every time you pretend otherwise, I'll be there.
Post by
Lordplatypus
They had the option to cast aside being a sunreaver. You know that, I know that.
Yet they didn't.
The sunreavers claimed innocence after all the stonewalling.
Letting the horde in at all was merely a necessity brought on by Malygos.
Malygos is gone
The horde leaves.
Jaina offered that to aethas, who bullheadedly stood his ground, so exile was no longer an option.
Imprisonment was.
The sunreavers still fought back, and We put them to the sword, as we had to.
Just give it a rest, those monsters deserved every single bit of it.
I would have went into silvermoon in the dead of night and dropped some mana bombs into the sunwell first.
Shame they didn't do it.
btw, they fixed your biased editting.
Despite Aethas's belief that Thalen was an irregularity within the Sunreavers' ranks, the presence of Garrosh's agents appears to be more widespread. Warchief Garrosh himself has ordered Sunreaver agents to infiltrate Darnassus and acquire the , a powerful mogu artifact that had eluded him during his stay on Pandaria. Fanlyr Silverthorn uses a Sunreaver portal in order to circumvent Jaina Proudmoore's wards around Darnassus. With the aid of Horde champions, the Divine Bell is stolen by the Horde. However, despite Fanlyr's attempts to cover his tracks, Jaina is able to discover evidence linking the Sunreavers to the theft of the Divine Bell. With this knowledge, Jaina begins a purge of the Horde from Dalaran.
It wasn't
the
sunreavers, but it was
a
sunreaver.
You blame the alliance for garithos doing what he did, but blaming a sunreaver who was moreso a representative of his race is wrong?
Oh wait, Blood elf fanboy, i forgot.
Post by
Adamsm
That is so full of crap it's not even funny anymore. Seriously.
Post by
Rankkor
It wasn't the sunreavers, but it was a FORMER sunreaver.
Fixed. Fanlyr left the order prior to MoP had had become an officer of the reliquary at the time of the theft, he was no longer a member of the alliance.
You blame the alliance for garithos doing what he did, but blaming a sunreaver who was moreso a representative of his race is wrong?
Yes because Fanlyr was NOT a sunreaver, he LEFT the order prior to the theft.
Also what article was that you linked? I had never edited that one. Thanks for pointing out that irregularity. Fixing now. =D
A wiki has to be neutral, not biased.
Post by
Skreeran
...
Heretics in the Spanish Inquisition
had the option to cast aside
their heresy
. You know that, I know that.
Yet they didn't.
The Church
offered that to
them
, who bullheadedly stood
their
ground, so exile was no longer an option.
Imprisonment was.
The
heretics
still fought back, and We put them to the sword, as we had to.
Just give it a rest, those monsters deserved every single bit of it.
Your argument falls flat. A) you can't execute people because of the actions of one of their number (otherwise you could be imprisoned because the multitude of war crimes America has committed), and B) you can't justify putting people to death because they refused to surrender to the
brute squad.
Post by
Lordplatypus
The inquisition wasn't the near-nazi holocaust popular culture portrays it as.
http://books.google.ca/books?id=Ljrw9swM1fAC&pg=PA33&lpg=PA33&dq=spanish+inquisition+misconceptions&source=bl&ots=y-7A_Xts3C&sig=Lv_2YNNehQ7CsbVPNiK8h7mo8_c&hl=en&sa=X&ei=LJ5CUfL3BsiyqQH414GQCw&ved=0CEUQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=spanish%20inquisition%20misconceptions&f=false
Post by
Skreeran
It's an analogy. My point stands.
Post by
Lordplatypus
So the Kirin tor were reasonable, took their time and only arrested.
KK
Post by
Rankkor
So the Kirin tor were unreasonable, passed sentence without any form of proof, only SUSPICION of foul play, and even that suspicion was based on nothing more than Jaina's hate, and then proceeded to lynch an entire ethnic group who has been loyal to their cause for the past 2000 years.
KK
Fixed.
Post by
Lordplatypus
ethnic group who has been loyal to their cause for the past 2000 years.
Didn't exist for half that amount of time
was based on nothing more than Jaina's hate,
Sunreaver portal, Sunreaver fingerprints.
So the Kirin tor were unreasonable
Opinion
only SUSPICION of foul play
That's what suspects are supposed to be caught by.
Post by
Rankkor
ethnic group who has been loyal to their cause for the past 2000 years.
Didn't exist for half that amount of time
The elves of silvermoon co-founded the city with the humans 2000 years ago. Did you forgot that?
was based on nothing more than Jaina's hate,
Sunreaver portal, Sunreaver fingerprints.
No sunreaver fingerprints, I suggest you
do the quest yourself.
Lady Jaina Proudmoore says: These portals connect to Dalaran. That means the Kirin Tor... MY OWN Kirin Tor... helped the Horde commit this atrocity.
At no point she finds any evidence linking the theft to the sunreavers, she finds a portal that leads to dalaran, and that's all she found. If you think otherwise, then, again, do the quest once more. Stop making stuff up will ya? you're really making yourself look bad.
So the Kirin tor were unreasonable
Opinion
Fact.
only SUSPICION of foul play
That's what suspects are supposed to be caught by.
Nope. Without evidence, you can't be legally detained for any crime, you can be investigated, but not arrested.
Post by
Sas148
You all need to get back on topic. Warchief discussion only (i.e - the subject of this thread). Consider this a soft warning... if it further derails after this post official warnings/suspensions may be issued. Thank you.
Post by
Lordplatypus
The elves of silvermoon co-founded the city with the humans 2000 years ago. Did you forgot that?
The HIGH ELVES. Just making sure you remember that the real elves are still there.
Sorry, this will be my last post on this topic.
Fact.
A fact (derived from the Latin factum, see below) is something that has really occurred or is actually the case
Nope
it's opinion
In general, an opinion is a belief about matters commonly considered to be subjective, i.e., it is based on that which is less than absolutely certain, and is the result of emotion or interpretation of facts.
now then, The most likely thing we'll see is thrall back, but Vol'Jin seems the next most likely.
Post by
Rankkor
You know, that's really low, really really low. Moderator does a warning to not derail the thread anymore, you go ahead and sneak your opinion still, promise its the last time, and then try to disguise it. One way or another you just HAVE to have the final word don't you?
Meh, do what you want.
Post by
Behelich
Gonna throw in my two cents to offer my opinion why Saurfang should not be considered as a warchief material.
There were days when saying the word 'Horde' automatically implied 'orcish'. Those days are long gone, and the Horde is no longer just a bunch of misfits clinging to one another out of necessity. No matter how Garrosh's atavistic despotism threw it back, slowly yet surely the Horde becomes as much of a tight conglomeration of nations, of cultures as is the Alliance.
Moreover, even the name 'warchief' is misleading. The Horde needs not someone who can lead them into war - at least, not only that. What they need is someone who can end the war and rule justly in times of peace, equally mindful of the needs of every kind of person - from the lowest peon in Orgrimmar to the proud magister in Silvermoon, from the common zeppelin mechanic of the Cartel to the wizened elder shaman living on the Bluffs (for the detractors: the comparison goes both ways, and in no way are goblins and orcs as a whole race inferior or superior to tauren and blood elves).
Saurfang has seen the war and understands the need for peace, that is true. However, the war is his entire life. It took his brother and son, and it left him a tired old man who tosses and turns in his sleep still from the cries of draenei slaughtered ringing in his ears. His experience is invaluable, the next warchief would certainly be wise to heed his words. But beyond that, he is simply not qualified on top of (in my opinion) lacking the inspirational drive from some point.
Charisma and popularity will only get one so far. Some people in the Horde already wanted a decorated war hero, and we know how that one turned out. I am not saying that Saurfang as a warchief will be as much of a problem as Garrosh, but I am fairly certain that it will create more problems than it will solve.
Besides, let's face it - Saurfang is old. At his age, a piece of news shocking enough - somewhere, for example, on the scale of the Dalaran purge - can just give him a heart attack. We should not expect too much from him - rather, we would all do well to remember and honor him for what he has done. The Overlord has already given the Horde everything he could.
Post by
Lordplatypus
Saurfang should be warchief
He should not however, be the leader of the horde.
He's a great figurehead, he'll get the orcs to agree to crap. But we need someone else elected to lead the horde.
Post by
Skreeran
The Horde doesn't really do elections though.
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