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New Warchief?
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Post by
Rankkor
3 > 0
simple mathematical truth. Just sayin'
He got hammered in his short story against that dragonthingy
and he got ambushed and imprisoned twice.
3=3
however thrall was existant since WC3: Reign of chaos, whereas varian had 3 expansions of gametime.
Twice?
One was when he was taken by the defias before going to that summit, but when was the second?
And I'm not sure those kidnappings can truly count as a defeat. I mean, he got jumped by his own men, before any battle could begin. I'm referring to actual direct combat against a foe.
Also, I don't really see what does Thrall's longevity in the franchise has anything to do with anything.
Post by
Lordplatypus
the second time was in the begining of the warcraft comic, where Rehgar oneshots him after he kills a croc.
Thrall had more time to fight and get beaten.
Post by
Rankkor
the second time was in the begining of the warcraft comic, where Rehgar oneshots him after he kills a croc.
Thrall had more time to fight and get beaten.
meh, whatever, I still don't feel that those really count as "battles" considering that on the ship his own men jumped him when he was unarmed, and on the second time, he was starved, tired, worn out, and again unarmed.
What I am talking about is an actual battle when you are at your prime, and thus there are no excuses, you just charge, and get your ass handed back to you in a silver plate. THAT has only happened to varian once (his personal story, and even then I think it was still an ambush, though I'm not entirely sure, may have to re-read it) whereas it has happened quite often to Thrall .Against Blackmoore on twilight of the aspects, yes he won, but it was not a one-shot OP victory like Varian often does against everyone, where he wins without so much as taking a single hit. Against Mannoroth where he was in full armor and completely unharmed, and Mannoroth swatted him aside like a flea. Even against Jaina who battered him like a ragdoll (an argument could be made that he was holding back and refusing to fight her "for real")
Post by
Lordplatypus
Varian isn't one-shotting anything.
Not getting hit too many times is the standard in non-in-game fights, since they tend to be more realistic.
Mannoroth was more or less right after he had to fight through an army of red orcs to capture grom's soul and stuff.
Varian getting ambushed all the time gets grating after awhile.
Post by
Skreeran
the second time was in the begining of the warcraft comic, where Rehgar oneshots him after he kills a croc.
Thrall had more time to fight and get beaten.
meh, whatever, I still don't feel that those really count as "battles" considering that on the ship his own men jumped him when he was unarmed, and on the second time, he was starved, tired, worn out, and again unarmed.
What I am talking about is an actual battle when you are at your prime, and thus there are no excuses, you just charge, and get your ass handed back to you in a silver plate)Well in that case you can't count Thrall's duel with the ogre.
Post by
Lordplatypus
Varian was about to get Pwn'd by a bear before genn came in and distracted it in Wolfheart if i remember right.
Post by
Rankkor
Varian isn't one-shotting anything.
Not getting hit too many times is the standard in non-in-game fights, since they tend to be more realistic
Did you read the comics? 9 out of 10 fights he had were over in a single move.
Mannoroth was more or less right after he had to fight through an army of red orcs to capture grom's soul and stuff.
Yeah but you can't call Thrall OP or sue-fied invincible hero because to get to Grom and fight to the army of red orcs he didn't do so alone, he did it along with Jaina, his own army, and Theramoore's army.
Varian getting ambushed all the time gets grating after awhile.
That my main beef, the ONLY time he ever is shown getting injured, or even close to losing a battle is when he's ambushed. It makes him an unrealistic character that he just wipes the floor with everythign and everyone he faces head on.
Even the glorious SAURFANG got at least one ass kicking (at the hands of his scourgeifyed son)
the second time was in the begining of the warcraft comic, where Rehgar oneshots him after he kills a croc.
Thrall had more time to fight and get beaten.
meh, whatever, I still don't feel that those really count as "battles" considering that on the ship his own men jumped him when he was unarmed, and on the second time, he was starved, tired, worn out, and again unarmed.
What I am talking about is an actual battle when you are at your prime, and thus there are no excuses, you just charge, and get your ass handed back to you in a silver plate)Well in that case you can't count Thrall's duel with the ogre.
Fair enough. It still leaves Thrall receiving plenty of defeats, or at least victories where he had to work his ass for them, whereas Varian is shown winning effortlessly ALL THE DAMNED TIME.
Varian was about to get Pwn'd by a bear before genn came in and distracted it in Wolfheart if i remember right.
hmmm, I'd have to take your word for it, I refuse to read anything written by Knaak. After the massive pain that was Day of the Dragon I just said "never again".
Post by
Lordplatypus
Even the glorious SAURFANG got at least one ass kicking (at the hands of his scourgeifyed son)
Pretty sure varian had his rear end handed to him by a Dragon-Centaur and if it wasn't for his kid, he'd be a corpse.
Plus, Saurfang is just Crowley's alt.
That my main beef, the ONLY time he ever is shown getting injured, or even close to losing a battle is when he's ambushed. It makes him an unrealistic character that he just wipes the floor with everythign and everyone he faces head on.
Said Drakonid wasn't really an ambush.
hmmm, I'd have to take your word for it, I refuse to read anything written by Knaak. After the massive pain that was Day of the Dragon I just said "never again".
He jumped the bear to save one of the worgen, then after one slash, which didn't hit where it should, he nearly got thrown off. He was pretty much F***ed if Genn wasn't there to distract it for that one more minute it took for Varian to hit it's artery.
Post by
Rankkor
Plus, Saurfang is just Crowley's alt
You wish.
There's a reason Crowley hasn't been heard of again. Saurfang doesn't take well to copycats.
Post by
Lordplatypus
This may be derailing but.
What happened to saurfang?
No doubt a fist went through his axe and cleaved his face off.
Post by
Rankkor
This may be derailing but.
What happened to saurfang?
No doubt a fist went through his axe and cleaved his face off.
Nope, he was left behind to command the horde military left on Northrend.
And just so you know Saurfang CAN cleave with his fists too, he just chooses to use the less powerful axe, so you can still have a world left to play in.
Post by
Lordplatypus
Pah! He's merely a brown belt in Cleave-te-kata
Post by
Rankkor
hmm if we're gonna be comparing Saurfang to Crowley we could do it in the general lore thread. Lets not deviate this one anymore shall we? (Even though I do have more to say about the matter at hand >_>)
Post by
Lordplatypus
I don't really think this counts as lore -_-
Post by
Rankkor
I don't really think this counts as lore -_-
Saurfang led the Might of Kalimdor against the largest army that Azeroth ever faced other than the burning legion, where he personally cleaved hundreds of thousands of the bugs. He was so strong, so fast, so unstoppable, even alliance troops of the 7th legion admired his skill, and you can hear the alliance guards on Howling Fjord, commenting how they wished he was there, and how he'd butcher all the vry'kul by himself if he was there.
It takes a real badass when even your enemies admire your skill in battle.
Post by
darkelemental1
Saurfang is a warrior and advisor, a great "vice-Warchief" sort of role. He showed no desire to rule and should not be forced into it. I am of the mind an orc must lead the Horde despite how much Vol'jin has been at the head of the rising rebellion. The main problem with an orc leading the horde right now though is none of them have come around to be good candidates. How many younger orcs can you name off the top of your head that would make a good warchief and have had enough screen time for you to understand their world views and how they would lead. This leaves a horrible feeling that Thrall will return and just pick up where he left off after the other races beg him to come back. On a side note, how many years has gone by since Thrall left in lore time? As a family man his child is born and perhaps like anduin will be the next in line for leadership with perhaps Voljin at his right hand. Speculations abound.
Post by
Adamsm
He's only been gone for about a year and a half; and the position of Warchief is not hereditary, the kid would have to prove worthy of the position.
Post by
Lordplatypus
In history, the title is in earned by whoever killed the last one.
Post by
Adamsm
In history, the title is in earned by whoever killed the last one.
Um....no it's not; Gul'dan put Blackhand into power, only Doomhammer killed the previous one, and Thrall was given the position after Durnholde soldiers killed Doomhammer with cheap shots.
Post by
Rankkor
In history, the title is in earned by whoever killed the last one.
WRONG.
Garrosh is warchief, and he didn't killed thrall. Thrall was warchief, and he didn't killed Doomhamer. Blackhand was warchief, and he also didn't killed Gul'dan.
In History, if you don't LIKE the current warchief, you can challenge him to Mak'gora and claim the title for yourself, but that is not THE ONLY way to get a warchief. Traditionally, the current leader of the horde appoints a successor, as that's how Blackhand, Thrall and Garrosh got their leadership positions.
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