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The Darker Side of WoW
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Post by
Tykzor
I do see the OP point of view and I'm sure everyone agrees.
But I have to make a real life comparison, I just have to.
Why do we have laws in the real world ?
Why do we have lawyers in the real world ?
Why do we have police in the real world ?
Why do we have private investigators in the real world ?
Why do we have military forces in the real world ?
Why do we have forum moderators ?
Why do we have contracts ?
Why do we have ToS with a game or any other product ?
Why do we have disclaimers ?
And the list goes on and on and on..........
Why are the above needed to have a peaceful world where everyone gets along and where there are no criminals or misbehaving people ?
Some people behave differently and they don't even know it or are not aware they are being rude or whatever. Or they do it to have some 'fun'.
Nobody is 100% good or 100% evil.
Everyone has some good AND evil within themselves.. with some the % of good is higher and with others the % of evil is dominant.
In the real world people can be jerks and same goes for the World of warcraft.
Some people like to mess with someone elses mind just to show off how smart they are or for the feeling of having control or power.
And since we have all those things to help us maintain law and order, why do we see lots of tragidy or criminal activities on the tv or in the newspapers ?
There will always be people who misbehaves for whatever reason (maybe the person is just crazy and something snapped)
No matter how many police or military or whatever forces which enforces piece there are in the world... it will never be enough.
Just the fact that peace needs to be "enforced" .. please have peace or else ! lol
Post by
Onijitsu
I think it's valid to make a real-life comparison in some ways. After all, these are real people, from the real world, interacting in a very real way. They are, perhaps, less inhibited than they would act in a truly public situation, with everyone else actually standing around themselves. This, because they have no fear of consequences.
I think Lonewarrior
hit the nail on the head
in how he described Blizzard's current policy of enablement. Nofoodforyou
described bad behavior
that we all see on a more than daily basis.
The reason I brought up the loot issue is because that is only the most recent. And, because WoW is designed (
by Blizzard!
) to be very much centered around loot. You receive three major rewards for your play: Acquisition of loot (including mounts and pets), achievements, and less tangible social interaction. Some of that "social interaction" is less than desirable, obviously. Loot is akin to resources in the real world, and wars are fought over resources. Why should we expect it to be very different in a digital domain, where loot is so central to the game's design? However, I have also seen sexually predatory behavior, stalking behavior, outright bigotry, and numerous other things. These were also not discernably punished when complained about.
My ultimate conclusion is, that if Blizzard will not do enough (or not do anything) about these situations, then why shouldn't any of us? Especially, if we have no reasonable expectation that Blizzard will do anything about our own actions, even if we were to decide to go on the offensive?
Post by
Adamsm
However, I have also seen sexually predatory behavior, stalking behavior, outright bigotry, and numerous other things. These were also not discernably punished when complained about.
My ultimate conclusion is, that if Blizzard will not do enough (or not do anything) about these situations, then why shouldn't any of us? Especially, if we have no reasonable expectation that Blizzard will do anything about our own actions, even if we were to decide to go on the offensive?
If people went on the offensive in Azeroth(a la Occupy idiocy), you'd probably see a lot more bans being handed around. People need to stop acting like Blizzard is the police of the MMO, and realize that just because it's the internet, doesn't mean they get to act like !@#$%^&s to people. If you see someone making incredibly racists or derogatory remarks, take a screenshot of it, send a report to Blizzard and they'll look at the account and see if there were other reports in regards to that, but you do realize that Blizzard does not tell you if something was done right?
As for loot = war resources....yeah, not even going to touch that.
Post by
161859
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Onijitsu
If people went on the offensive in Azeroth(a la Occupy idiocy), you'd probably see a lot more bans being handed around.
That's what I want to see. More action by Blizzard. And if they want to get mad at people taking matters into their own hands, then they're going to have to handle the fact that they dropped the ball themselves.
People need to stop acting like Blizzard is the police of the MMO
If not Blizzard, then who? We pay them money. They provide a Terms of Service contract. If they will not protect their paying customers, then what other option is there, really? Suck it up? Sorry, but I'm F'in sick of suckin' it up.
Post by
Adamsm
That's what I want to see. More action by Blizzard. And if they want to get mad at people taking matters into their own hands, then they're going to have to handle the fact that they dropped the ball themselves.You know, you say they dropped the ball....but considering what is in the game compared to what was there when it started, they've taken strides to get rid of it: Number 1 for people who harass you, is Report Spam, as that shuts up the entire offending account until you log off. Number 2, if the harassment is constant, take screen shots, and report them directly to Blizzard with proof. Number 3, for any non-pugs or raid finder groups, take a screen shot of when the loot rules are given; if someone *!@#s around with it, you can then report and have proof to back it up. Blizzard is not Big Brother.
If not Blizzard, then who? We pay them money. They provide a Terms of Service contract. If they will not protect their paying customers, then what other option is there, really? Suck it up? Sorry, but I'm F'in sick of suckin' it up.
Refer to the above; there are ways, from sending in emails to posting on their forums to creating GM tickets.....but remember, because Blizzard is not Big Brother, you have to back it up to make them see the problem.
Post by
508201
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
lonewarrior
Yes, I did read the whole post.
I have the fortune of being in 2 really good guilds (one Horde one Ally) I rarely ever see a lot of racist/sexist crap but then I dont use /Trade unless absolutely necessary.
Ninja looting is...well I dont worry about it. Can always run the dungeon again and frankly running with Guildies is the best way to keep the drama to a minimum.
PS. Guilds use to be the front line against numbnuts. They were easily ostracized and usually they would all join up into one guild which made it easy to avoid them. No longer I'm afraid.
Not sure what you mean by this. Guilds tend to insulate people from the idiots, I know that we filter out the d*&^%$bags from our guilds awfully quick.
It's what I meant if poorly explained. As a guild leader( retired now :) )..behavior was front and center. I had no intent of spending my time in the company of idiots. That behavior was also expected in the direction of the community as well.
I didn't accomplish this with a heavy handed approach, just by example.
I was gracious to all my guild members...the women were always addressed properly, I never talked down to any of my young players.
It worked, what I got back and surrounded myself with were people I was happy to call my friends.
As a guildmaster, along with other responsible guild leaders, we were the front line of defense for the community. That was taken out of our hands when LFD was introduced and unfortunately has eroded ever since. LFR pretty much puts the "guild", which was a cornerstone for progression and for building a social community, firmly in the past.
You have to fend for yourself now, in a mostly anonymous puggers world.
I can only recommend to grow a thick skin and look for any guild that has been around since at least TBC or very early Wrath. There are still a few around that resist the current culture.
Plant yourself in one of them and never leave. :)
Happy Holiday's
Post by
Onijitsu
In regards to the loot issue I used for my example in the original post? Blizzard's policy is that they feel it is in the "best interests of the game" to NOT restore items to the individuals who were wronged. They MAY POSSIBLY remove those items from the individuals who profit from a loot scam. (But this is not guaranteed)
This seems to have the effect of both denying any form of justice after a wrongdoing has been perpetrated, and to discourage players from seeking assistance from Blizzard when someone is acting incorrectly within the game. In other words, "We don't want to deal with it. Keep giving us your money."
---
More recently, with 4.3 being launched, I had around 15-20 BoE items on some clothie toons which I use for storage. They have their own guild banks, etc. Those items became soulbound. That includes plate bracers, two-handed axes, level-85 cloth items (when neither toon is level 85), and such. There is no way in which these storage toons could have equipped these items. Thus far, Blizzard has not restored any of those items.
There have been several other tickets which I -- and others (this is not just about MY experiences) -- have submitted, which have received NO response. Someone viewed them. Nothing was done. No response was made.
All of this illustrates an approach where Blizzard does not care about its paying customers, and will do little or nothing to help them, when either another player OR even Blizzard does something to them.
Post by
Adamsm
More recently, with 4.3 being launched, I had around 15-20 BoE items on some clothie toons which I use for storage. They have their own guild banks, etc. Those items became soulbound. That includes plate bracers, two-handed axes, level-85 cloth items (when neither toon is level 85), and such. There is no way in which these storage toons could have equipped these items. Thus far, Blizzard has not restored any of those items.I had that happen as well with the agil ring out of one of the Zandalari instances; it would have been nice if there was a warning that this was going to happen, but oh well.
All of this illustrates an approach where Blizzard does not care about its paying customers, and will do little or nothing to help them, when either another player OR even Blizzard does something to them.
Report report report report any problems you run into; be it bugs, griefing, or thieves. If you don't report it, you can't expect Blizzard to react to it(and you still need the proof so keep on screen shotting things).
Post by
lonewarrior
I was reading the forums and I had to make an account just so I could post in this thread.
To the OP:
Get a life and your problems will be solved.
The end
Pray tell us the glorious life you must know, that caused you to go through the steps to make an account just to post this.
I want to make sure when I get a life as well, I don't accidentally get yours.
Post by
161859
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Onijitsu
I had that happen as well with the agil ring out of one of the Zandalari instances; it would have been nice if there was a warning that this was going to happen, but oh well.
Seems to me, Blizzard ought to be responsible for fixing these items. Don't you think so?
All of this illustrates an approach where Blizzard does not care about its paying customers, and will do little or nothing to help them, when either another player OR even Blizzard does something to them.
Report report report report any problems you run into; be it bugs, griefing, or thieves. If you don't report it, you can't expect Blizzard to react to it(and you still need the proof so keep on screen shotting things).
I don't think you understand. I
HAVE
been reporting these issues. Multiple issues, over the last years I have been a customer. And I HAVE provided proof. In the loot issue which I used for my main example, I submitted screenshots of the loot rules, the loot rolls, and the fact that the Raid Leader gave it to someone else anyway. Blizzard still did not do anything.
My complaint in making this thread is that, no matter what pains you take to ensure Blizzard knows, and has all of the facts, they still do nothing. They don't stop harassment, abuse and stalking behavior. They don't fix loot issues. They don't give much of a damn when they are the ones who screw you over, themselves.
The reason nothing is happening is NOT because I haven't been telling Blizzard; it is because Blizzard:
Does not intervene (or, intervene
effectively
) when clearly violative, obscene and abusive behavior is identified. Even when multiple people have been abused, have been witnesses, and are complaining to Blizzard. And, even when such behavior is a clear violation of their own contract with players.
Does not even reply to several help requests made.
Has policies which specifically state they will not help you, and which even discourage you from seeking their assistance! Such as, not replacing items which have been part of a ninja-looting situation.
Post by
Adamsm
/shrug Sorry, didn't realize your own personal experiences set the tone for everyone: I've seen ninja loot given to the right person, I've seen ass holes banned, we all remember that police issue about the older woman attempting to have sex with an underage boy who was caught because of Blizzard offering up the chat logs of their conversations.....so yeah, they do absolutely nothing.
Post by
Onijitsu
You have completely ignored all the good customer service responses that Blizz has reacted to (i.e. including every single ticket I've ever sent in).
Please reassess your logic. How can I have been party to any ticket which you have sent in? Let alone, ignore those?
They can not address every single little issue, and it does not make business sense to address every single little issue.
I get that some issues may have greater priority over others. However, when it involves abusive behavior, then Blizzard, as the arbiter and de-facto police force of the game is responsible to enforce its own code of conduct. When it involves malignant behavior, where players are preying upon other players, then I think it is also important for Blizzard to do something there too.
I think that, if WoW were not centrally designed around the acquisition of loot, then ninja-looting would be much less of an issue. But the game
is
designed that way. And in order to maintain a good situation, it is incumbent upon Blizzard (or, any other developer of an MMO) to handle the flow of loot, and the way that the in-game economy works. Failure to do so sabotages their own game design.
To generalize and state that Blizz doesn't care about its customers is just blind accusation for which you have nothing but anecdotal information and lack of understanding of how to run a large business.
First of all: "
Blind accusation
" - No. I've seen these issues repeatedly, with myself and with others. I'm not the only one, as evidenced by other persons' responses.
Secondly: "
Nothing but anecdotal information
" - That is all we have to go on. It would be nice if we could make Blizzard provide statistical data on their tickets. How many are actually respond to. What they do about them. But since Blizzard will not provide that, then this part of your argument is invalid.
Third: "
Lack of understanding
" - By trade, I am a Nurse. I take care of issues which my clients have. If I fail to do so, that constitutes negligence. It doesn't matter if I have one client, or sixty at a time. (which I have, when working in some nursing homes) Yes, my response to the current collection of issues must be constantly reassessed, and priorities must be made. But ultimately, Crap. Must. Get. Done. Or else, I lose my license, and can go to jail.
With Blizzard, I am trying to hold them to a certain standard of customer service. In becoming the big business you point them out to be, it seems that they have lost touch with their player base.
Post by
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Monday
You know, the guy being stalked could have solved all his problems with a report.
Post by
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Monday
You know, the guy being stalked could have solved all his problems with a report.
Ya, unfortunately these days blizzard doesn't ban griefers, it used to be that you'd get banned for camping someone for an hour, now they don't ban anyone for griefing last I checked. So he couldn't have done anything. He probably opened a ticket, and the gm said "sorry, not breaking terms of service". I assume that would've led to him getting a server transfer. He SHOULD'VE gotten a name change, but the ganker may have been so obsessed, that he checked his victims armory, and made careful notes of his gear and stats, so that even a name change wouldn't save him.
You're assuming a lot of stuff.
How do you know that he opened a ticket with all the specifics and got it looked at by Blizzard. How do you know that he didn't call/email customer service?
Post by
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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