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QOTD Thread #332- Do you think that people should keep cats outdoors?
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Post by
1069282
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Monday
4.Don't wake anyone by kicking into their nuts - My ex-friend
Pretty sure I know what happened there.
Post by
ElhonnaDS
#331- The Friendzone Debate!
Ok- so there seem to be a number of schools of thought on what leads to the concept of friendzoning, and people seem to have strong opinions.
What is the Friendzone, and does it really exist as a phenomenon, or is it a concept people hide behind to not personalize rejection? Where do you think the blame usually lies? Is it worse to be a person who has an idea someone might like you but try to be polite by ignoring and brushing it off without addressing it directly, even if that gives them false hope, or to tell anyone they suspect likes them, regardless of whether they have approached them, that they're not interested even if it looks conceited and insults friends who were not interested, because otherwise you might be taking advantage of people? If one party never outwardly expresses interest in the other, do they have the right to expect the person to know anyway through interpreting their actions? Does the idea of friendzoning carry with it some implication that when one person has a pattern of doing really nice things for a person, they are owed something in terms of emotional or physical connection by the other person, or is that a complete misinterpretation of the concept? Do people have a right to feel betrayed when they care for someone romantically, and that person falls for someone who doesn't treat them anywhere near as well? Should people stop and think about whether people who care for them and put their time into them deserve to get a chance even if they are not initially attracted to them on any level?
I know that there are outside cases- hustlers and con-people who play on people's emotions specifically to get something, but I'm talking about people in general who find themselves in these situations without trying.
EDIT: I know that some of these questions may be leading, and I wasn't sure how else to phrase the common debate points about it. Fell free to ask the questions in a different way if you want.(##RESPBREAK##)8##DELIM##ElhonnaDS##DELIM##
Post by
Rystrave
Is it worse to be a person who has an idea someone might like you but try to be polite by ignoring and brushing it off without addressing it directly, even if that gives them false hope, or to tell anyone they suspect likes them, regardless of whether they have approached them, that they're not interested even if it looks conceited and insults friends who were not interested, because otherwise you might be taking advantage of people?
Not gonna lie, I had to copy and paste that into a Word doc just to get it all seperated from such a long sentence, lol
Anyway, I think the 'friendzone' is when one really cares/likes/loves someone, but the feelings are not reciprocated. The 'friend' keeps the 'zoned' in a friendzoned relationship because they either
Buy them suff
Have cool things
Make good whoopie
Edit: Added #3
and the 'friend' likes to have access to such things without having to use their own resources.
I think it's in the best interest for both people to express that there are no mutual feelings. It's really for the best. If you don't say anything, you really just make it worse in the long run.
From experience, being friendzoned sucked, and that guy is a total #$%^ for not saying to me and leading me on. I have friendzoned as well, though. But when I friendzoned someone I did express that I had absolutely no feelings sexually or romantically with him, but he was and still is my best friend to this day. He would text me at 4 in the morning, drunk, saying he loved me, asking why we couldn't be together. We grew older, we dated other people, and it all stopped eventually.
Post by
ElhonnaDS
I acknowledge that there ARE people will take advantage of other people's affections, but I have also seen (and experienced) where one person refuses to take the offered gifts or favors, or tries to refuse multiple times and the person puts a LOT of pressure on for them to accept it. I personally never take anything from anyone in any circumstance where I think there is even a remote chance that they are interested when I am not- I won't even let a guy pay for me on a date until we've gone out a few times. But in many cases, despite how little I have encouraged them, how aware they are that I am in a relationship, or how firmly I refuse to allow them to pay for things or give me things, it does little to deter the behavior if I am still being at all cordial or friendly to them. And in a lot of those cases, they will never directly say that they are interested so I can just give them an honest answer.
On the flip side, on the rare occasion that I have addressed it directly without them having declared intent, because I felt the behavior was glaringly obvious, I get chewed out for being so jaded or so arrogant that I think that they're hitting on me simply because they decide to test if they can get away with using inappropriate pet names for me and make very sexual comments, or because they in game try to give me gold or all sorts of free things (which I don't accept) and then immediately request my facebook or e-mail, or talk to me nonstop and tell me how I should be going very, very, very slow with any guy I date because it's better for me.
It seems like invariably, when I have in my life had the sense that someone I am not interested in is interested in me, but they're not upfront about it so that I can just give them an answer, it goes one of two ways:
1) I am nice and polite, but do no encourage their attention, accept any gifts, or hide the fact that I am dating or interested in someone else, and it still drags on for months where they keep offering favors and such, until they finally get mad for being friend zoned for so long because even if they hadn't said anything I should have known and just told them I wasn't interested.
2) I head off the process when they start showing obvious (very obvious, and generally the same types of behaviors that have previously fallen into the "you should have known" category) signs, and they get mad that I thought they were interested me to begin with and was arrogant enough to tell them I wasn't interested when they hadn't asked me out or said anything specific.
So, I don't feel like the friend zone game is one which you can win, because it seems that no matter where in the process I end it, or how little I allow the person to do for me, I am the bad guy for any response that isn't "I like you too."
EDIT: This isn't necessarily a super frequent situation for me, other than the online gaming, since I left college. But it has happened on a number of occasions, and it's why I have decided to just play stupid until people come out and say something or give up, because it's the less confrontational of the two options.(##RESPBREAK##)8##DELIM##ElhonnaDS##DELIM##
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
I don't really understand what the problem with concept of a 'friendzone' is, whether it's real or not. I am very good friends with several women. Some are in relationships, some are not. They are my friends. I'm friends with them because I want to be friends with them. I do stuff with and for them because I want to. I don't expect them to come at me with sex. Hell, sometimes I feel like the a token gay friend who isn't gay. I'm fully in the 'friendzone' with them and I love it. Friends are awesome! Just because I'm single doesn't mean I can't have regular friends who are girls.
I believe that if you're being strung out by a girl (or boy), that's not a friendzone problem, that's a problem with you letting yourself get taken advantage of. Don't dole out affection haphazardly.
Post by
Patty
The friendzone is bull$%^& and if you subscribe to that train of thought and try to shame someone into being interested in you or cuss them for not doing what you want to make you feel better for yourself then tbh I really have no time for you.I don't really understand what the problem with concept of a 'friendzone' is, whether it's real or not. I am very good friends with several women. Some are in relationships, some are not. They are my friends. I'm friends with them because I want to be friends with them. I do stuff with and for them because I want to. I don't expect them to come at me with sex. Hell, sometimes I feel like the a gay friend who isn't gay. I'm fully in the 'friendzone' with them and I love it. Friends are awesome! Just because I'm single doesn't mean I can't have regular friends who are girls.
I believe that if you're being strung out by a girl (or boy), that's not a friendzone problem, that's a problem with you letting yourself get taken advantage of. Don't dole out affection haphazardly.
The friendzone is more specifically the passive-aggressive idea that being a decent human being to someone should result in sex as a reward and if you don't give them their sex you are a @#$%ty person. Those that say it would argue that's not what they mean, but really that's exactly what it is.
Post by
Skreeran
I disagree Patty. I think all the concept of a friendzone means for someone is that they have romantic feelings for someone, and the recipient of their feelings only has friendly feelings. If the one with romantic feelings doesn't announce their feelings, and the other person doesn't pick up on them, then you have a friendzone.
I myself have been the sort to accidentally friendzone people. I've had a couple girlfriends, but each time I'm too hesitant and shy to take it anywhere, so it doesn't end up working out.
Post by
ElhonnaDS
I disagree Patty. I think all the concept of a friendzone means for someone is that they have romantic feelings for someone, and the recipient of their feelings only has friendly feelings. If the one with romantic feelings doesn't announce their feelings, and the other person doesn't pick up on them, then you have a friendzone.
I myself have been the sort to accidentally friendzone people. I've had a couple girlfriends, but each time I'm too hesitant and shy to take it anywhere, so it doesn't end up working out.
I think that this is what the friendzone SHOULD BE. But for a lot of people there is this animosity built up about it, and if you go on any forum where it's being discussed- anything on like memebase and failblog- you will get a number of people who consider friend-zoning being some horribly deceptive or manipulative thing, and somehow reflective of the person they were chasing being an idiot, or being horrible. There is a mentality among some people that the person who is in the friend zone is being used, and therefore has a right to feel anger at the person who doesn't want to date them.
I think that the existence friend zone has a lot to do with people expecting their interest to take signals that they are interested so they don't have to risk actually saying it, but them not counting anything but a direct shut down as a signal that the person isn't, which is a hugely hypocritical double standard.
"I won't be direct with you but you should know from how I act that I am interested. How come you won't tell me straight out you're not interested, and leave me trying to figure it out from the way you act?"
There are people who lament being in the friend zone, and then there are people who resent it. And I think that the people who resent it (unless we're talking about cases where the person is actively leading you on- which are in my experience a lot less that the people being friend-zoned like to think they are) are what Patty is reacting to.(##RESPBREAK##)8##DELIM##ElhonnaDS##DELIM##
Post by
Skreeran
I guess I haven't really heard most of the ruder discussions about it. Whenever I see it on the internet, it's the sort of "forever alone" kinda of sad character trait. For example "Peter Parker is stuck in the friendzone. He loves Mary Jane, but is too awkward and shy to let her know."
Post by
Rankkor
#330: The greatest piece of advice I've ever been given was by my grandma. "NEVER be afraid to chase your dreams"
Sounds corny, but it made a before/after in my life. After I was released from Sabaneta, I dind't had many options, former inmates of that place almost never get a job, I eventually started going to college, and just barely graduated in economy (just barely) and thanks to the pastor of my church who vouched for me (He has a lot of pull in the community) I got landed a discreet job as a number-cruncher at a local miserable bank, where I was nothing more than an office-drone.
Stuck in a teeny-tiny cubicle, in that depressing glass/steel building full of stiffs, you'd probably find more cheer in a graveyard. I had to do a job I detested, found incredibly boring, in an environment that didn't foster any joy, or enjoyment of any kind. However, I had become a family man, I had gotten married, baby on the way, I could not afford unemployment, and believed I was "too old" to chase after my childhood dream of being a chef, that my chance came and went, and that this is what I was stuck doing for the rest of my life.
It would had been far easier to stay inside the comfort zone, to keep the status quo as it is, I had a steady salary, I was keeping my family fed, and the bills paid. Then my grandma told me that one should never give up on their dreams, no matter their age, and that I should not be afraid to chase after them.
It was that single piece of advice that led me to start taking Chef classes at an academy (that she helped me pay) and when I was offered a job at a restaurant, I took a blind leap of faith, and abandoned a safe, secure job at a bank, to try my luck in the world of cuisine. Even if I've had my ups and downs, and I've suffered a lot of collateral damage due to that decision, I still don't regret it, and I keep pushing forward to realize my dream, become a Chef, and maybe even one day, get my very Own Restaurant.
#331- The Friendzone Debate!
Ok- so there seem to be a number of schools of thought on what leads to the concept of friendzoning, and people seem to have strong opinions.
What is the Friendzone, and does it really exist as a phenomenon, or is it a concept people hide behind to not personalize rejection? Where do you think the blame usually lies? Is it worse to be a person who has an idea someone might like you but try to be polite by ignoring and brushing it off without addressing it directly, even if that gives them false hope, or to tell anyone they suspect likes them, regardless of whether they have approached them, that they're not interested even if it looks conceited and insults friends who were not interested, because otherwise you might be taking advantage of people? If one party never outwardly expresses interest in the other, do they have the right to expect the person to know anyway through interpreting their actions? Does the idea of friendzoning carry with it some implication that when one person has a pattern of doing really nice things for a person, they are owed something in terms of emotional or physical connection by the other person, or is that a complete misinterpretation of the concept? Do people have a right to feel betrayed when they care for someone romantically, and that person falls for someone who doesn't treat them anywhere near as well? Should people stop and think about whether people who care for them and put their time into them deserve to get a chance even if they are not initially attracted to them on any level?
I know that there are outside cases- hustlers and con-people who play on people's emotions specifically to get something, but I'm talking about people in general who find themselves in these situations without trying.
EDIT: I know that some of these questions may be leading, and I wasn't sure how else to phrase the common debate points about it. Fell free to ask the questions in a different way if you want.
Whoa, lots of questions rolled up in there. My own definition of the "Friendzone" is a lot more benevolent and gender-neutral than most.
So here it goes, step by step:
What is the Friendzone
Friendzone, is when you have developed feelings for someone else, and this other person is any of: A: already in a steady and loving relationship with someone else. B: Not interested romantically in you. C: Sees you as a close friend, and would rather not get involved romantically to avoid risks to damaging the friendship.
It really sucks to be in the friendzone, to know how much you love someone, and yet that someone, for whatever reason, will never love you back in the way you want to, thus you are "so close, and so far at the same time"
Where do you think the blame usually lies?
Nobody, sometimes people are just not compatible, sometimes, that other person simply has different tastes and you don't really fit into them, sometimes that other person may have fallen in love with you if you had met earlier, but s/he already knows and loves someone else.
To try and blame that someone for not loving you back would be a really petty and childish attitude, nobody is forced to feels something for you, and unrequited feelings are a normal part of life, and part of why love is often refered to as "Carrying a torch". If you can't accept the fact that sometimes "its not meant to be" then maybe you're not ready for an adult relationship yet.
Is it worse to be a person who has an idea someone might like you but try to be polite by ignoring and brushing it off without addressing it directly, even if that gives them false hope, or to tell anyone they suspect likes them, regardless of whether they have approached them, that they're not interested even if it looks conceited and insults friends who were not interested, because otherwise you might be taking advantage of people?
Depends on the situation. Specially if the reason you feel nothing for them is due to being already in a loving relationship yourself. If that's the case, inform them of that fact, and don't tell them so bluntly "i'm not into you". If they still crush after you, even after knowing you're in a relationship, its their own fault. If the reason you feel nothing for them is simply because you're not attracted to them/you don't feel that you're compatible/there's no chemistry, etc, I simply don't think that avoiding addressing it is "give them false hope or take advantage"
To Give false hope would be to make them believe you have feelings for them, in return for them doing stuff for you, that would be incredibly manipulative and cruel. To "play dumb" and pretend you haven't noticed, simply to avoid causing them pain would be a more natural course of action, and if they inform you of their feelings, THEN is when you inform them that you're just not into them.
The third scenario is if you know they are crushing after you, you don't have a significant other, and you actually like this person as a friend, but not as a potential lover. Real tip-toes have to be used here to convey the message that a relationship is not gonna happen, but that they're still someone you'd like to be friends with.
If one party never outwardly expresses interest in the other, do they have the right to expect the person to know anyway through interpreting their actions?
Nope. I was in love with Reina, and I specifically, directly, bluntly told her so, I didn't left subtle hints that she was supposed to figure out on her own, only for me to blame her if she didn't. If you have feelings for someone, its YOUR job to let them know about it, not their job to figure it out on their own.
Does the idea of friendzoning carry with it some implication that when one person has a pattern of doing really nice things for a person, they are owed something in terms of emotional or physical connection by the other person, or is that a complete misinterpretation of the concept?
If anyone does something nice for someone else, only to expect a physical or emotional connection from the recipient, then that someone is incredibly selfish. True love is when you stop thinking about yourself, and start thinking about the happiness of the person you love. When you do something nice, ONLY because you expect them to reciprocate in some way, then all you're doing is bartering, not being nice.
Do people have a right to feel betrayed when they care for someone romantically, and that person falls for someone who doesn't treat them anywhere near as well?
Of course not, there's this thing called "Free Will" in which anyone has a right to choose. Sometimes they'll choose you, and sometimes they'll choose someone else. To be angry at them for not choosing you would be quite petty. Yes, they're hurting you, but not maliciously, they're not "bound" to you, nobody is. You'd have more of a right to feel betrayed if you care romantically for someone, this someone realizes it, uses it to exploit you for presents, favors, etc, and then ditches you when you're no longer useful. This was cold and calculative deception, rather than natural rejection.
Should people stop and think about whether people who care for them and put their time into them deserve to get a chance even if they are not initially attracted to them on any level?
Yes but only if you are not already in a relationship. Lets pretend I wasn't married, and a fellow student at the chef academy tells me that she wants to be my girlfriend, yet I don't know her, I'm not attracted to her, and I don't feel anything for her. I'm not obligated to reciprocate their feelings, but if I'm alone, it would be nice to give them a chance, as long as you're very forward with this, and tell them directly about it, rather than give them false hope. Let them know that you wanna "try it out" and to be fully prepared that you 2 may or may not be compatible. If she still agrees, then yes, I'd give her a chance. Who knows? I may end up being surprised.
Post by
Patty
I disagree Patty. I think all the concept of a friendzone means for someone is that they have romantic feelings for someone, and the recipient of their feelings only has friendly feelings. If the one with romantic feelings doesn't announce their feelings, and the other person doesn't pick up on them, then you have a friendzone.
I myself have been the sort to accidentally friendzone people. I've had a couple girlfriends, but each time I'm too hesitant and shy to take it anywhere, so it doesn't end up working out.
Not really. I mean, the whole concept of being "friendzoned", i.e. verb, implies an active role in the non-reciprocant (now a word) of any feelings rejecting somebody, therefore prescribing some level of guilt/blame on them, which, as Elhonna pointed out, are never made explicit to the party receiving those affections. Which is bull!@#$.
Post by
Nathanyal
I disagree Patty. I think all the concept of a friendzone means for someone is that they have romantic feelings for someone, and the recipient of their feelings only has friendly feelings. If the one with romantic feelings doesn't announce their feelings, and the other person doesn't pick up on them, then you have a friendzone.
I agree with this. I have tried to date one girl but she only wanted to be friends so we just stayed friends. I ended up being, like HSR put it, "the a gay friend who isn't gay". We would go hang out. We'd talk. When she broke up with her BF she talked to me about it.
Post by
Squishalot
I've had this argument with Patty before - I'm with Skreeran in that I don't think that there's any implication of guilt or blame in the concept. Some people may choose to apply guilt / blame along with it, but it would be like saying 'international relations' is evil and a bull$@%^ term because some people apply guilt / blame / nuclear weapons to it.
Post by
Interest
Friendzone
Lol, bull$%^&. Also shouldn't this be in DOTD? ;o
Post by
ElhonnaDS
#332- Do you think that people should keep cats outdoors?
Post by
Interest
I can't force them to, but as a person who delivers stuff at night, I see a LOT of cats and I'm dead scared that I might turn one into roadkill.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
Not if they are not contained, and since you probably won't get away with a leash your options are limited.
Post by
Rystrave
NUUuuuu, kitties belong inside where they can be forced to cuddle and get kisses and hugs.
Post by
1069282
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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