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DOTD - Debate of The Day #52
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Post by
Ksero
As an aside if they found the cross on which jesus was crucified, and there was viable DNA, would you want him to be cloned?
The plot twists.
No. I wouldn't want Jesus cloned. I'm going to hide from making any religious reason for this, and just say that people would worship the clone, and if the clone turned out to be a war mongering jerk, then it would create a new war mongering religion. That is reason enough to stay away from that.
But how do you know the 3rd coming of Christ wasn't supposed to be this way?
Post by
Adamsm
It's also worth noting that AI usually doesn't result in an exact duplicate, DNA and all. It may if you fiddled with it enough, but not in and of its own right.
Did you mean to put clone there Squish?
Nope, why? You can clone using AI / IVF if you're picky enough with your specimens, as far as I'm aware.
Ah, wasn't sure is all; since I put that AI creates a new form of life lol, as opposed to creating a duplicate.
Edit: Also, in regard to their being more people...why in the world would we want that? There are currently 6 billion(possibly more at this point) humans running around on the planet; if we made clones, we'd end up even more over populated then we already are.
And as for why I don't want to see human cloning...well, it's because I read a lot of Sci-fiction, and cloning rarely comes out well in those.
1. If cloning was possible to make an exact double of you, down to your memories and mannerisms, death would suddenly become very very cheap since if you die, you could just be replaced by the clone without any real issues.
2. Clone Rights: Say the clones aren't counted as human beings....what does that mean for them? Menial labor, becoming organ farms, or just used as expendable troops?
3. Body Farms: Say cloning is only ever available to the very rich, and it's all done by corporations, what's to stop them from just making clones for the entire purpose of replacement parts? Someone needs a new heart; just cut open a clone and there you go. Or even worse, they figure out how to make a clone that is just organs and a respiratory system; there you go, all the parts you need right off the rack(yes, I have read/seen movies just like this).
Post by
MyTie
But how do you know the 3rd coming of Christ wasn't supposed to be this way?
Christ is alive. He still exists. There is no need to bring him back into existence. Besides, most of the Bible makes a very clear picture that God creates man, and that man isn't in charge of God. It would be pretty counter-intuitive to think that God would decide to switch that up in the last chapter. That would be one heck of a plot twist, though. M Night Shamalyn could direct it. George Clooney could star in it. It would be able saving the environment.
Seriously, though. You can't clone God. You might be able to clone humans, and maybe even clone the fleshly body of Jesus, but to think you could bring to presence the power of God is a bit, well, over the top.
Post by
Squishalot
Ah, wasn't sure is all; since I put that AI creates a new form of life lol, as opposed to creating a duplicate.
Ahh. No, it was more just to be a bit more precise.
Post by
Ksero
But how do you know the 3rd coming of Christ wasn't supposed to be this way?
Christ is alive. He still exists. There is no need to bring him back into existence. Besides, most of the Bible makes a very clear picture that God creates man, and that man isn't in charge of God. It would be pretty counter-intuitive to think that God would decide to switch that up in the last chapter. That would be one heck of a plot twist, though. M Night Shamalyn could direct it. George Clooney could star in it. It would be able saving the environment.
Seriously, though. You can't clone God. You might be able to clone humans, and maybe even clone the fleshly body of Jesus, but to think you could bring to presence the power of God is a bit, well, over the top.
That makes sense. But technically, half of Jesus' DNA came from god, otherwise he wouldn't have existed(immaculate conception and such). So wouldn't anything that was cloned be part of God.
Post by
Adamsm
How can you clone something that doesn't have a physical form?
Post by
MyTie
That makes sense. But technically, half of Jesus' DNA came from god, otherwise he wouldn't have existed(immaculate conception and such). So wouldn't anything that was cloned be part of God.
Sure, but I see no indication that there would be anything divine about His DNA. We all have some part of God in us, as we are made in His image. That doesn't mean that we are part God, though.
I think this is going a bit more religious than we need to. I maintain that it shouldn't be done for practical purposes. The clone would be worshiped as God, and if the clone were not perfectly God (I see no reason to think that he would be), then you'd result in a new, imperfect religion. Do we need another one of those? Really.How can you clone something that doesn't have a physical form?
Jesus did have physical form. His blood was spilled. We are talking about a hypothetical cloning from some old blood discovered.
Post by
Adamsm
How can you clone something that doesn't have a physical form?
Jesus did have physical form. His blood was spilled. We are talking about a hypothetical cloning from some old blood discovered.
Actually, I was talking about this line:So wouldn't anything that was cloned be part of God.Since God is beyond the physical, there wouldn't 'need' to be a portion of Itself within Jesus, since the big G already showed It could create something out of nothing without a lot of effort.
Post by
MyTie
Since God is beyond the physical
Jesus is God. This is the point of this topic.
Post by
OverZealous
I'm all for cloning animals if it may help in removing world starvation, but I'm not quite sure how I feel about cloning humans. On one side, they would be their own person and I see nothing wrong with that in theory, but I feel it would be an easy thing to exploit. The company (assuming a company would do it, in this case) that first clones a human could easily abuse it and create slaves or, as posted earlier, empty shells for organ harvesting. I've seen the movies, I've watched the series, human cloning rarely goes well for one reason or another.
Things might be done differently in the real world, but we haven't actually seen human cloning before, so I'll say that I'm against it, as of yet. If someone has the capability to clone humans and intend to do so, I would like to see laws put in place to make sure that clones are not treated badly.
Also, I'm surprised at your viewpoint, MyTie; I guess I thought your beliefs were simpler and more mainstream than they actually are.
Post by
Ksero
That makes sense. But technically, half of Jesus' DNA came from god, otherwise he wouldn't have existed(immaculate conception and such). So wouldn't anything that was cloned be part of God.
Sure, but I see no indication that there would be anything divine about His DNA. We all have some part of God in us, as we are made in His image. That doesn't mean that we are part God, though.
I think this is going a bit more religious than we need to. I maintain that it shouldn't be done for practical purposes. The clone would be worshiped as God, and if the clone were not perfectly God (I see no reason to think that he would be), then you'd result in a new, imperfect religion. Do we need another one of those? Really.
No belief system is perfect.
Back on topic, How would cloning another Einstein or Descartes be different than cloning another jesus, people would "worship" them too, what if they turned out not to be the geniuses scientists thought they would. Cloning people doesn't give them the same personalities or brain power, you are starting from a single cell, after that everything is fair game, the cloned Einstein might be happy with making art, and pursue that as his passion.
Post by
MyTie
Also, I'm surprised at your viewpoint, MyTie; I guess I thought your beliefs were simpler and more mainstream than they actually are.I've been hearing this stuff for years on Off-Topic. People decide what they think I think, then are surprised when I don't think what they think I would think.Back on topic, How would cloning another Einstein or Descartes be different than cloning another jesus, people would "worship" them too, what if they turned out not to be the geniuses scientists thought they would. Cloning people doesn't give them the same personalities or brain power, you are starting from a single cell, after that everything is fair game, the cloned Einstein might be happy with making art, and pursue that as his passion.
A cloned Einstein has the biological possibility of developing into an exceptionally smart individual. A cloned Jesus doesn't have a chance of "developing" into God.
Post by
Squishalot
I've been hearing this stuff for years on Off-Topic. People decide what they think I think, then are surprised when I don't think what they think I would think.
In fairness, I was talking about your views in a completely different context to what you were talking about (cloning sheep vs potentially cloning humans).
Post by
MyTie
I've been hearing this stuff for years on Off-Topic. People decide what they think I think, then are surprised when I don't think what they think I would think.
In fairness, I was talking about your views in a completely different context to what you were talking about (cloning sheep vs potentially cloning humans).
I'm confused. Are you OZ? Are you referring to earlier in the conversation?
Anyway, the importance I place on what people think about what I think is much much less than people seem to think.
Post by
Squishalot
Referring to earlier in the conversation. Just saying that I was justifiably surprised.
Post by
134377
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Nathanyal
Guys, the clone of Jesus will more than likely be the anti-christ.
But as for my opinion on the matter, I don't see anything wrong with cloning. It'll help make more plants as well as maybe help with those animals that are close to extinction.
Post by
Levarus
Guys, the clone of Jesus will more than likely be the anti-christ.
But as for my opinion on the matter, I don't see anything wrong with cloning. It'll help make more plants as well as maybe help with those animals that are close to extinction.
How would a replicate of Jesus be the opposite of what he was replicated as?
Post by
557473
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
I wonder if somehow manage to clone Jesus, will someone come down and fix this bug?
Please, if anyone finds any Jesus DNA, you know that location will be smoted into nothingness.
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