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DOTD - Debate of The Day #52
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Post by
204878
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
MyTie
Living together is a sin? Odd, I thought sex outside of marriage was the sin according to Christianity.
I realize
some
most people will have sex while living together.When you put yourself in a position where you know you are likely to sin, then that itself is sin. You should run away from sin, not skirt the edge.
#38: Should couples live together prior to marriage?
I think that is entirely up to the couple to decide.
This doesn't answer the question.With this lifestyle more and more popular, and divorce rates at an all time high, I highly doubt this is a preventative measure for divorce.
Correlation vs causation.
That's why I choose the wording "I highly doubt" instead of "this is proof".
Post by
yukonjack
yukonjack said:
#38: Should couples live together prior to marriage?
I think that is entirely up to the couple to decide.
This doesn't answer the question.
How so I was asked a question concerning my opinion whether or not I feel couples should live together before marriage, I answered essentially that I feel it is up to the couple in question. How is that not answering?
Post by
MyTie
How so I was asked a question concerning my opinion whether or not I feel couples should live together before marriage, I answered essentially that I feel it is up to the couple in question. How is that not answering?
Should people drink soda pop?
It's clearly unhealthy, and expensive. I feel they most definitely shouldn't. That is clear to me. Now, I believe that every individual must make that choice for themselves, but that doesn't mean I feel they
should
. Do you see the difference?
I've noticed this "decide for yourself" mentality going along with an anti judgmental mentality, to the extent that it has been used to cover up saying "this is wrong" or "this is right". The question is "is it wrong or is it right for unwed couples to live together". The question is not "who decides if unwed couples live together".
I understand we live in an "anything goes" society, and "do what makes you feel good", and "to each their own". The point of this topic is to look past that and make a moral determination of right and wrong. If you feel that it truly is morally ambiguous, and that each couple can decide that without greater moral consequences, then be clearer in explaining the determination that you don't feel that it is morally wrong nor right.
Post by
Adamsm
But what right do some people have to force their moral view point on others?
A random stranger on the street can see a man and a woman(or two men, two women whatever) living together as wrong, but that's really none of their business since they aren't involved with the relationship in any way. However, said couple could see that as being perfectly fine, and are completely fine with it, while a different couple would have an issue with being in the same house if they weren't married; it is a case by case by thing, and in some very good cases, keeps the two people from making a mistake.
Post by
Sas148
Should people drink soda pop?
It's clearly unhealthy, and expensive. I feel they most definitely shouldn't. That is clear to me. Now, I believe that every individual must make that choice for themselves, but that doesn't mean I feel they
should
. Do you see the difference?
I've noticed this "decide for yourself" mentality going along with an anti judgmental mentality, to the extent that it has been used to cover up saying "this is wrong" or "this is right". The question is "is it wrong or is it right for unwed couples to live together". The question is not "who decides if unwed couples live together".
I understand we live in an "anything goes" society, and "do what makes you feel good", and "to each their own". The point of this topic is to look past that and make a moral determination of right and wrong. If you feel that it truly is morally ambiguous, and that each couple can decide that without greater moral consequences, then be clearer in explaining the determination that you don't feel that it is morally wrong nor right.
This is exactly what I find wrong with the world. There are certain things that we must decide as a society are morally wrong (i.e. rape, murder, etc) but... to say that everyone should decide if it's right or wrong for an unwed couple to live together is ridiculous to me. Make the decision for yourself and apply that to your own life, follow your own beliefs on it. But I do not see any reason to make a blanket moral decision on behalf of everyone regarding the morality of it. It's up to them and their situation. No one else.
But what right do some people have to force their moral view point on others?
A random stranger on the street can see a man and a woman(or two men, two women whatever) living together as wrong, but that's really none of their business since they aren't involved with the relationship in any way. However, said couple could see that as being perfectly fine, and are completely fine with it, while a different couple would have an issue with being in the same house if they weren't married; it is a case by case by thing, and in some very good cases, keeps the two people from making a mistake.
^ This ^(##RESPBREAK##)8##DELIM##sas148##DELIM##
Post by
MyTie
But what right do some people have to force their moral view point on others?
This has nothing to do with the conversation. No one is going out into the world, finding unwed people, and "forcing" their views on them. This discussion is about having a conversation about moral views.
I find this viewpoint aggressive, and I think that you are actually forcing your viewpoint on me. When I make a moral determination that an act is wrong, you tell me that I am forcing my moral viewpoint on other people, which I'm not, in an attempt to silence my viewpoint. It's an aggressive approach. It's dishonest. I don't appreciate it. I can have my moral viewpoints. When asked for them, I can express them. I can defend them. That doesn't mean I'm thumping people over the head with them.
Post by
Sas148
I wouldn't say "no one" is doing that MyTie. I know there are groups that do in fact go around "forcing" or rather "expressing" their views about this subject. I also don't think Adamsm was specifically saying you do this. He did say "what right do some people" not "what right do you." Let's try and remember that before anyone starts attacking one another.
Post by
MyTie
But I do not see any reason to make a blanket moral decision on behalf of everyone regarding the morality of it. It's up to them and their situation. No one else.
Are you willing to make any moral judgments about:
Bestiality.
Polygamy.
Laziness.
Gluttony.
Are any of these things
wrong
.
Should
they be things that people should avoid? Certainly people should be free to decide to do them, but are they things that are corrosive to the spirit? Are we so morally bankrupt that we cannot make that determination?
Post by
Adamsm
I don't count being lazy, a glutton or a polygamist as being that corrosive if that's how a person wants to live their lifestyle and only the person in question's morals should be counted.
Bestiality I'll give you, but you have to already be pretty screwed up in the head to even consider something like that.
Edit: I know why you personally consider all those things as wrong MyTie, but other then the Bestiality, I disagree with that view point on the world.
Post by
Sas148
It's not our right to judge. If you find those things wrong personally, don't do them. I personally don't see any reason to judge someone and their situation of which I am not at all involved. I have my own personal viewpoints and I know what I think of those things, and I will act accordingly within the confines of my life.
Why is that a hard concept for people to accept?
Post by
yukonjack
#38: Should couples live together prior to marriage?
As you can see Mr. Mytie the question does not ask if it is morally acceptable for couples to live together before marriage. You as usual assumed the question was asked from a moral perspective.
Now I have given my answer to the original question as it was asked, though I would add I believe in judge not lest 'ye be judged.(##RESPBREAK##)8##DELIM##sas148##DELIM##
Post by
MyTie
It's not our right to judge. If you find those things wrong personally, don't do them. I personally don't see any reason to judge someone and their situation of which I am not at all involved. I have my own personal viewpoints and I know what I think of those things, and I will act accordingly within the confines of my life.
Why is that a hard concept for people to accept?
We aren't judging people. We are judging ACTIONS. though I would add I believe in judge not lest 'ye be judged.
Interesting addition. Where did it come from? If it came from where I think it came from, I'd like to ask you "who is a pig" and "what are pearls". If you have no idea what I'm talking about, then keep reading the chapter to get the context on what you are preaching to me.
Post by
Sas148
It's not our right to judge. If you find those things wrong personally, don't do them. I personally don't see any reason to judge someone and their situation of which I am not at all involved. I have my own personal viewpoints and I know what I think of those things, and I will act accordingly within the confines of my life.
Why is that a hard concept for people to accept?
We aren't judging people. We are judging ACTIONS.
lol - Actions performed by people. There is no distinction.
Post by
yukonjack
It's not our right to judge. If you find those things wrong personally, don't do them. I personally don't see any reason to judge someone and their situation of which I am not at all involved. I have my own personal viewpoints and I know what I think of those things, and I will act accordingly within the confines of my life.
Why is that a hard concept for people to accept?
We aren't judging people. We are judging ACTIONS.
lol - Actions performed by people. There is no distinction.
There is if it suits the purpose of his arguement, however flimsy.
Post by
MyTie
lol - Actions performed by people. There is no distinction.
Unfortunately, people make mistakes. They do things that are wrong. I am one of those people. I am not defined by those actions. I am not defined by those mistakes.There is if it suits the purpose of his arguement, however flimsy.
Thinly veiled spite like this is allowed. Making a joke about wanting to be the site director, not. Nice.
Post by
FatalHeaven
It's not our right to judge. If you find those things wrong personally, don't do them. I personally don't see any reason to judge someone and their situation of which I am not at all involved. I have my own personal viewpoints and I know what I think of those things, and I will act accordingly within the confines of my life.
Why is that a hard concept for people to accept?
We aren't judging people. We are judging ACTIONS.
Doesn't matter. Bible says don't judge. You are still judging the person
for
their actions; And that's not our job. God has that handled.
Post by
MyTie
Doesn't matter. Bible says don't judge. You are still judging the person
for
their actions; And that's not our job. God has that handled.
Wow. Where does the Bible say "don't judge", in context? Don't just look at Matt 7:1, but at the rest of Matt 7. Does it say to leave the speck in your brother's eye? Then, take a look at John 7:24, and James 4:11-12. The passages you think speak against judgment, I challenge you, DO NOT speak against judgment, but speak against hypocrisy. To judge, without hypocrisy, is not only righteous, but required.
Post by
Adamsm
How it is misquoted but at the bottom of the page:
How Are We to Judge?
1. We are to judge righteously. Jesus commands in John 7:24, "Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment."
Judge by the Word of God and Its principles, not by someone’s skin color, whether they are tall or short (inherited physical traits), etc.
2. We are to judge without hypocrisy. "And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?" (Rom 2:3)
Judge yourself first to see if you are guilty of that sin. Live what you preach. Only after you get your life cleaned up by turning from your sins and receiving pardon through repentance and faith in Jesus (i.e. you get saved) you can go and help others to be saved too. Of course, it's nearly impossible for any frail mortal to make a judgment without hypocrisy.
Post by
FatalHeaven
Luke 6:37
"Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven."
So fine, judge all you want; sure hope you're 100% perfect.
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