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Post by
MyTie
Which, is understandable. But it's like a question that was asked before on the board: Say they proved one of the religions was right about everything; would you change to that one, since it's the 'known' guarantee to end up wherever after you die.Yes. My belief in my religion rests in my understanding it as the truth.
My logic is that I believe the universe was created because of the nature of love. Based on that, I believe the creator also loves. Based on that, I believe the creator wants to feel loved. Based on that, I believe that a creator would place knowledge of Himself on Earth. Further, my understanding of love would also mean that such a creator would give humanity a choice to love Him or not, which would require an ability to doubt Him, and disobey Him. Based on the available knowledge humanity has of God, the model that follows my understanding of love the most is Christianity. You may argue that Christianity isn't very loving, because its followers aren't always "nice", but that's a matter of some subjectivity.
The claims to religion must be ancient, as in, present since creation, and readily available to humanity. It makes sense that a deity would have set up religion that way, as He wants to be loved. That leaves me with 3 possible religions: Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. Judaism is waiting for a messiah, that it says it will be able to trace the bloodline of. It's bloodline records were burned in 70 AD. It cannot do what it says it will do, unless its messiah came before 70 AD. Islam isn't based in love, and founded by a pedophile, and very recently. It cannot trace its 'legitimacy' to before Mohammad. It is a "new" twist on Judaism. So, that leaves me with Christianity. Christianity can trace its legitimacy to the times with Judaism was looking for its messiah. The bloodline of Jesus was authenticated. No one else can be the modern "messiah". That means that if there is a God, and He loved us, and made Himself known, Christianity is the logical conclusion for what religion represents that deity, as Christ is the only one that comes from that ancient religion traced to the beginning who fits the bill for the Messiah.
After studying the Bible, for many years, I've arrived at the conclusion that if Christianity is the true religion, the denominational-ism must be false. Christ never intended many different styles of Churches. He created one Church. I've concluded that following the teachings of Christ as closely as possible is the accurate way to follow the teachings of Christ. Deviations from the Bible invariably become self contradictory. So, I go to a non denominational congregation of the Church of Christ. That's my "logic tree", which has caused me to arrive where I have. If I found that logic to be false, I would change my beliefs.
I hope that helps people understand why I believe how I do. It's not to be "self centered" or "bigoted" or whatever people think it makes me. I follow the Bible, apologetically.
Post by
Gone
I've been told to my face that I'm a blasphemous, horrible, vicious person who's going to go Hell when I die and burn for all eternity....and this was from a little old lady coming out of a Church who happened to see my pentacle necklace. And of course, that group of ass hats in high school who felt the need to try to beat me up for being a Wiccan. So much love and understanding.
Ive been called stupid and senseless, as well as had my intelligence brought in to question and been accused of simply being brainwashed by my parents and society, and all sorts of other names by atheists Ive met on the internet, just for being a Christian. I also knew a Wiccan girl in high school who was one of my closest friends that refered to my mother as a Bible thumper, and said my religion does nothing but spread hate.
Im sure everybody here can compare notes on the douchbagss they have had to deal with because of their faith or lack there of. Attribute that to people in general being mean and ignorant about any belief that dosnt sync up with their own perception of truth, rather than any one particular group.
As far as your story goes dude. The Pentacle often gets confused with the Pentagram, which has the two points facing up rather than down, and has been asscociated with Satanic worship. As apposed to the symbol that Wiccans use, which has the single point facing up, which Im sure you know is more a symbol of protection and harmony. So a lot of people tend to confuse that symbol with something other than what it is. Not that thats an excuse for that particular womans behavior.
Its a shame really that a lot of symbols get a bad wrap due to be adopted by one group or another. Its kind of like the Swastika being adopted by the Nazis (pretty sure the Hindu/Budists are never gonna get that one back though). Then of course on teh flip side of that coin look at the Christian cross. For years before Christ died that was a Roman torture symbol. Now today it has very different connotations, being the main symbol of an entire religion. Actually many religions if you consider all the different faiths Christianity has branched out into.
Post by
Adamsm
Ryja, I've explained to people before the difference between a pentacle and a pentagram(and honestly, the pentagram isn't a symbol of evil either, it's just how it's used); and I've still had people tell me to my face I'm going to hell for devil worship: They just don't care beyond their own misguided views.
Post by
gamerunknown
Also I dont mean to keep beating this horse, but our perception of the laws of physics can be easily compromised if there is an omnipotent God that created the universe. He could very easily have created the Earth in 6 days, and still crammed billions of years worth of evolution in to that small time frame.
No, it's a fair point. However, one would have to wonder what God intended when he inspired (or dictated, or literally wrote) that the earth and heavens took six days to create, given in their omniscience, they'd know how the words would be interpreted and used to justify things contradicting such interpretations. Not to mention, such an interpretation is undisprovable (as is the five minute hypothesis).
I've been thinking about it a while and it is a bit of a conundrum. I can't imagine what it's like raising a child to be a Christian and then have them not turn out to be a Christian. To me it'd be like raising a child to believe in the labour theory of value and for them to read Rothbard or Nozick or something and conclude the labour theory of value is bunk. I'd be devastated, even if I thought they were a decent human being.
Post by
Gone
No, it's a fair point. However, one would have to wonder what God intended when he inspired (or dictated, or literally wrote) that the earth and heavens took six days to create, given in their omniscience, they'd know how the words would be interpreted and used to justify things contradicting such interpretations. Not to mention, such an interpretation is undisprovable (as is the five minute hypothesis).
Its possible that it was just the easiest way God had of explaining things to people back then, and still having them understand it. Its also possible that as the account was being passed down oraly before being written down things were lost in translation. Or it could just be that God knew how it would go and stated it like that anyway as a test of faith. Believing in Gods power even when the natural laws of physics weve come to believe seem to point in the oposite direction.
Post by
MyTie
Or it could just be that's what God did, so that's what He said He did.
Post by
Gone
Or it could just be that's what God did, so that's what He said He did.
Yea, but Gamers point (as I took it) was why would God do/say it that way, knowing that it would caus doubt later down the road when people learn that the Earth is, or at least appears to be, much older than six thousand years.
Post by
MyTie
why would God do/say
Any question that has this combination of words, that God doesn't directly answer, should be answered with "I don't know". Speculation on the unstated intentions of God is a futile venture, and leaves the door open for debate on the intentions of God, which again, isn't a productive conversation, in my opinion.
Post by
Gone
That also brings up another possible explination. That theres a perfectly logical reason that God did it that way, and we simply cant comprehend it with our lesser intelligence. I mean a lot of things that we do probably seem pretty irrational to a dog or a cat, and something even smaller like a flea cant even begin to fathom human reasoning.
Post by
MyTie
There are possible explanations. I don't know which is correct. I don't know why God didn't explain Himself. I don't know. it's that simple.
I don't know
. That's honest, and keeps me out of trouble. As long as I insist what I believe is the truth, and establish it as a possibility to others, then that's all I can and should do.
Post by
Adamsm
You know, just for the hell of it, I'd actually a Christian take on this little
passage
.
Edit: Since you know, there are quite a few of us Witches running around in the modern day world.
Post by
gamerunknown
I'd be interested in having a Muslim wowheader weigh in. I've been to a Muslim board before and had plenty of Muslim friends, but I haven't met anyone Muslim while playing WoW (afaik, ofc).
Post by
Gone
Adam your not a witch, at least not in the biblical sence of the word. "Witch" in the biblical sence didn't mean the same thing as it means these days thanks to Hollywood.
Besides that was a different time. All religions can have violent or brutal things in its history. If I'm not mistaken Wiccan beliefs have pagan origins, and I don't think I have to even get in to some of the shadier things in pagan history.
Post by
Adamsm
Ryja, Wiccans are Witches(that counts for males and females); and while we do have Pagan origins, our creed has always been 'Do what you will, but harm none' lol, can't really blame us for all other Pagan practices after all.
Post by
Gone
In the Biblical sence "witch" basically meant devil worshiper, or somebody that calls on dark forces of that sort. The term wasn't pasted on Wiccans untill somewhere around the middle ages, so Exodus would predate that by quite a bit.
Post by
Adamsm
Actually, the term referred to any magic user outside of the Church; that's how the Pagans got in trouble back then too.
Post by
MyTie
Actually, the term referred to any magic user outside of the Church; that's how the Pagans got in trouble back then too.
If you know what it means, then why ask, just to argue with the answer?
Post by
Adamsm
Again, was looking for a Christian take on it.
Post by
Gone
Actually, the term referred to any magic user outside of the Church; that's how the Pagans got in trouble back then too.
Well the logic behind that was that since according to the church there was only one God, that any power that came from something other than God must be from Satan. That was the churches interpretation at least, the Bible itself usually used the term in description of devil worshipers, and I find it hard to believe that God would order people to kill perfectly peaceful folk, even if they were misguided according to Biblical teachings.
There are numerous other passages in the Bible that says you can't force somebody to turn to Christ, but certain religious figures that came to power during the middle ages seemed content to ignore this.
Anyway like I said around that time the term "witch" was pasted on Wiccans and Druids and any other folk that seemed to call on any kind of magic, that the church deamed satanists.
Post by
MyTie
Again, was looking for a Christian take on it.
Then, let me break it down for you: Hebrew law. It was the law of the land for the Hebrew people, inside Israel. God wouldn't allow His people to spring up demon worshipers. Come to think of it, He still won't. You start worshiping demons, you cease to be a part of His people. In that day, His people was a nation, not a brotherhood, so the laws were significantly different.
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