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Druid Tank and Warrior Tank Question
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Post by
121278
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Post by
173035
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Post by
121278
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Post by
Sakkura
A druid's main drawbacks are lack of the ability to parry, lack of the ability to avoid crushing blows, and having to wear leather armor instead of plate. This (plus the relatively minor issue of blocks) is balanced by them getting a huge modifier to their armor and stamina; this allows them to take those more and bigger hits, and turn them into much smaller hits that are healable. Also, they get a larger amount of dodge from agility than paladins, who in turn get slightly more than warriors.
So you cannot directly compare armor at all. Health is a lot closer, but still druids will tend to be a bit ahead. But them being ahead on those two stats doesn't mean they are automatically better.
It is hard to compare directly; the best thing I can think of is using an addon like tankpoints, which turns your stats into two numbers that indicate your general survivability. One is tankpoints, which is how much damage you can take on average before running out of health, and one is effective health which is how much damage you can take with no avoidance. To get reasonable comparable numbers, take these numbers for a warrior while he has activated the shield block ability and is in defensive stance, and for a paladin take it while holy shield and any other buff things are up. And obviously take it in (dire) bear form for a druid.
Post by
121278
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Post by
pelf
I see, thanks for the explaination. He just thinks he's good as he has so much armor etc, but I dont think he can be really yet, as he's just starting to build his tanking gear.
Tell him he needs to achieve the armor cap at 35880 before he can boast about his armor. See what he says to that :).
Post by
53090
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Post by
Sakkura
Don't worry about him beating you in the MT slot, Druids as they are currently designed have a very difficult time tanking end game content due to the fact that they cannot push crushing blows off the combat table. This means that there is a good chance that raid bosses will be able to consistently deal 1.5x normal damage. I have seen druids successfully MT early Kara, but never end Kara. In most 25 mans, druids are never MT, however they make excellent soakers for attacks like Hurtful Strike due to higher armor and Hp.
I wouldn't put it that way. Druids are definitely able to MT the vast majority of bosses in the game. And once you get to the newer instances, you even run into bosses that cannot crush and thus favor druid tanks substantially. However, due to the nature of druids compared to the other two tank specs, it is more common to use druids as offtanks for most of the content, and then swapping them to MT if necessary on bosses that cannot crush.
Post by
Persen
Add up your dodge chance, your parry chance and your miss chance and throw it at him.
You also have some nifty cooldowns that he hasn't, and you can pop Heroic Potions.
Post by
84594
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Post by
Sakkura
Um... i gotta ask.. how much of the game have you seen? Paladins
can
push all crushes off, warriors push a few off and druids push none off. Arguing about crushing blows when comparing a warrior to a druid... isn't worth much since a druid can push 75% physical mitigation and usually boosts more HP anyway.
Actually, his post only ever refers to druids and warriors, not paladins.
Warriors can push almost all crushing blows off the combat table, not just "a few". Including the active immunity to crushing blows in the comparison is vital, but so are all the other elements - higher mitigation for the druid, higher avoidance for the warrior, bigger health pool for the druid etc.
Post by
131936
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53090
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Post by
Maradin
Warriors and paladins can achieve passive crushing immunity, whereas druids can't. It doesn't matter about SB/HS.
In general, warriors are less prone to spike damage. There are some bosses that spike warriors just as much as druids: for these, druids are better due to a (usually) higher HP pool and higher armour. On example might be Morogrim Tidewalker. There's no issue with a druid tanking Karazhan - they're generally better than a warrior for solo tanking it due to threat generation, with the possible exception of Nightbane if you have slow dps.
When we get to Sunwell, the warriors touch the armour cap (with inspiration up) and have a higher HP pool than our druids.
Post by
122372
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109094
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Post by
Sakkura
For the MT issue, I'm sure druids can MT nearly every encounter, maybe save the one in SSC with the resistances and Illidan (since you have to block shear correct?).
Reliquary of souls pretty much requires a warrior tank too, to spell reflect deaden. Of course, that could just be a warrior offtank that steps into the MT spot for that particular bit.
Post by
182941
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53090
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Post by
xaratherus
However you'll notice most elite guilds use warriors are MT for a reason: We can deal with those big single bosses slightly better than pallies and bears. That isn't to say that pallies and bears CAN'T, but to use another poster's words, "Put your best foot forward."
I'm not trying to be offensive, but given that there are ~87,000 ranked guilds on Wowjutsu, and ~14,000 of those have progressed into Black Temple, it's doubtful that anyone (outside of Blizzard, that is) can make any valid assertion that the majority of those guilds used Warriors as their main tanks. The true statement is that in your experience in the game, most of the guilds and/or raids that you have interacted with have used a Warrior as a main tank.
Our guild has used a Druid as main tank on everything up to Lynx in ZA (the farthest we've progressed so far); our guild leader's previous guild used a Paladin main tank to progress through the end of SSC.
I disagree that by choosing a Warrior tank for any fight you're putting your "best foot forward". Gear, strategy, and skill and group make up have far too much play in the matter to declare any of the tanking classes as "the best tank". Are certain bosses easier with certain tanks? Yes. Does that make them the best tank? No - it just makes them the most practical tank for that particular encounter.
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