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Seal of Vengeance - Used for..?
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Post by
194213
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Post by
174624
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Post by
windowlicker
I play ret in raiding and I've only used this about a handful of times just for @#$%s. for the long fights like Tidewalker or Leo the blind (cant remember his full name).
Post by
194213
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Post by
Blightman
It is used for tanking a BOSS. It will outperform SoR on
long
fights unless you:
Have ridiculous(>1000) spell damage
Skip Precision/Combat Expertise and miss so much you can't get/keep a 5 stack
The fight has some gimmick that make maintaining the 5 stack difficult. Lots of fears/stuns for example. Os boss has a means to wipe your stack(moroes for example)
Like, where? And would this always be the case no matter how much spell damage you've got, how fast your weapon is, etc.
In addition to flat out generating more threat it has the advantage of generating a portion of the threat via a dot. So if the boss does fear/stun/knockbak/etc you will still be generating some threat during that time.
Fortunately in WoLTK they are making the chance to add to the stack be on every melee hit instead of a PPM based system. This will make getting and maintaining the stack easier.
Post by
194213
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Post by
Adross
Hai! ^.^
I used to play a Blood Elf Paladin where I only had one seal I could use for tanking(Seal of Righteousness) but now I've rerolled a human to play with some friends :)
I read about the ability but I couldn't figure out what the heck I'm supposed to use it for :D Some says it's better than SoR, others say differently. I would really love to hear what you guys think I should use, as my paladin just passed level 64 a second before I wrote this ^.^
Cheers :3
EDIT: For tanking purposes ^.^
For tanking purposes it is simple. If it isn't a boss then use SoR, if it is a boss use SoV. Once SoV has 5 stacks on the mob it will generate better threat than SoR can.
Pretty much use SoR if the mob is going to die quick and SoV if the mob is going to take a bit more time.
EDIT: With about 350ish Spell Damage SoV does 1000ish damage in 8 seconds.
Post by
zoomie
I tried using SoV on a boss that was a demon so I was able to use exorcism too. I have ALWAYS used SoR up until this point. I was going to try SoV out. I read that if avenging wrath is popped when you start stacking SoV, then the extra damage from avenging wrath continues to affect the DoT as long as the stacks stay up. I tried that... With about 500 spell damage.
About 2 minutes into the fight, ALL dps had to stop because I was generating very little threat. About 600-700 tps. I was ordered to "whatever the &*!@ it is your trying to do, its not working so don't do it anymore" Keeping in mind this is with full rank concecrate always up, holy shield always up, judging every 8 seconds and resealing, and using exorcism every time the cooldown was up. I was also casting avengers shield every chance I got whenever the boss would start to cast a spell. Every single little bit of threat I could throw out, was going on the boss. His attack speed wasn't extremely fast but it wasn't slow either.
Another reason horde is much better than alliance. Seal of blood actually works. Seal of vengeance doesn't. Those who say seal of vengeance is for tanking bosses, and should be used on pretty much all bosses, is an idiot or has really really bad gear. Seal of righteousness all the way. Seal of vengeance should only be used on bosses like leotheras the blind, or supremus, or any of the bosses that have an aggro drop. It just makes it a tad bit easier to grab them back after aggro drops, as long as you can keep the stack going. SoV also *SUCKS* horribly for frontloading threat.
Use seal of righteousness.
Post by
Arannia
I use SoV occasionally in PvP. Sounds crazy I know but against other healers, the extra debuffs burn their mana fast. And if they cant/wont cleanse it, what I usually do is get a stack of 5 on them, then blow my HS+Judgement+trinket+AW macro, HoJ, then use Seal of Righteousness. Vengeance Debuff + Seal of Righteousness = ALOT OF DAMAGE in a short amount of time. You should hopefully be able to slap in Hammer of Wrath before HoJ is over. Make sure you've made them use their PvP trinket first though, and any other abilities they can use to break the stun (Divine Shield)
This is the only use I've found for it, and, while effective, its very situational.
I'm a shockadin by the way, 40/00/21
Post by
Blightman
I tried using SoV on a boss that was a demon so I was able to use exorcism too. I have ALWAYS used SoR up until this point. I was going to try SoV out. I read that if avenging wrath is popped when you start stacking SoV, then the extra damage from avenging wrath continues to affect the DoT as long as the stacks stay up. I tried that... With about 500 spell damage.
About 2 minutes into the fight, ALL dps had to stop because I was generating very little threat. About 600-700 tps. I was ordered to "whatever the &*!@ it is your trying to do, its not working so don't do it anymore" Keeping in mind this is with full rank concecrate always up, holy shield always up, judging every 8 seconds and resealing, and using exorcism every time the cooldown was up. I was also casting avengers shield every chance I got whenever the boss would start to cast a spell. Every single little bit of threat I could throw out, was going on the boss. His attack speed wasn't extremely fast but it wasn't slow either.
Another reason horde is much better than alliance. Seal of blood actually works. Seal of vengeance doesn't. Those who say seal of vengeance is for tanking bosses, and should be used on pretty much all bosses, is an idiot or has really really bad gear. Seal of righteousness all the way. Seal of vengeance should only be used on bosses like leotheras the blind, or supremus, or any of the bosses that have an aggro drop. It just makes it a tad bit easier to grab them back after aggro drops, as long as you can keep the stack going.
I would love to see a WWS of that fight.
Give us some numbers to back up your story. Some simple theory crafting shows that there must have been some other factor involved.
TPS from
SoR
at 500 spell damage with
Hammer of Judgement
as the weapon:
(((0.85 * (2610.43 * (weapon speed)/ 100) + 0.03 * ((max weapon dmg) + (min weapon dmg)) / 2 - 1 ) + (spell damage * spell dmg coef)) * RF modifier)/weapon speed = (((0.85 * (2610.43 * (1.8)/ 100) + 0.03 * ((129) + (19)) / 2 - 1 ) + (500 * .092) )*1.9/1.8 = 92 TPS
TPS from JoR at 500 spell damage=
((max damage + (spell damge * spell dmg coeff) *RF modifier) / judgment CD = ((228+(500*.7143)) * 1.9)/8s = 138.97 TPS
Combined you get 230.97
TPS from
SoV
at 500 spell damage at full 5 stack:
((5 * (150+(spell damage * spell dmg coeff)))/duration of SoV) * RF modifier = ((5 * (150+(500*.034)))/15) * 1.9 = 105.76 TPS
TPS from JoV at 500 spell damage on a 5 stack:
((5*(120+(spell dmg*spell dmg coeff))*rf modifier)/judgement CD = ((5*(120+(500*.4286))*1.9)/8s = 396.98125 TPS
Combined for 502.74125 TPS
This is not counting the small amount of damage SoV does on hit once the full stack is up nor any boost from Avenging Wrath. And yes, the stack uses the spell damage in effect at the time of teh 1st application of the SoV stack.
SoV also *SUCKS* horribly for frontloading threat.
Use seal of righteousness.
As far as front loading threat goes, generally you need a higher back end load than a front end. I know that sounds strange but consider how many stacking debufs that are not on the boss at the start of the fight that are towards the end such as scorch, improved shadow bolt, poisons, etc.. SoV scales up as the fight goes on while SoR stays at a flat threat rate.
Post by
106896
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adross
In short:
SoV for bosstanking
SoR for trash tanking
and yes it works like that. Proven by experience and by maths.
Yup that's exactly how I do it.
Honestly people who do all that hardcore number crunching are wasting their time. They could simply go into the game and try out the different spells and see how it works instead of sitting their saying, "Well in theory this should work better."
In the end it comes down to your skill as a prot paladin and your gear.
Right now I can open up on trash mobs with seal of wisdom and my raid won't catch up with me on threat.
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