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10.2.7
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10.2.6
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Taunt right after a pull
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Post by
146715
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Aedalas
Taunt is near useless if you already have aggro, the only other reason would be the six seconds the target is forced to target you. If your method works just put the huntard on ignore. As for commanding shout, unless you're over-geared for the encounter then yeah, you probably should be using it instead of battle shout.
Post by
146715
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
195115
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
menakles
Hi,
I use taunt routinely when breaking cc where the cc generates aggro, usually when a hunter traps. I taunt the mob before I break the trap to ensure it sticks to me rather than running off and one shotting the hunter.
Other than that, the other posters are quite correct in saying that taunt is a waste of time on the pull. Taunt forces the mob to attack you for 6 secs and gives you the aggro of the highest person in the threat list. On the pull this should ofc be you, if everyone is doing there job right. Given the cd on taunt, using it at the start means that if a dps should overaggro after 7 secs they are going to be very dead if you are doing heroics or raids, and there won't be much you can do about it since your idiot rescue tool is on cd
Whether to use CS or BS is situational. Your first priority is staying alive so if you are undergeared or the healer is weak/distracted/chatting to mates on /guild then CS should be up, as should shield block. If your health is comfortably over 1/2 most of the time, then use BS to help aggro and melee dps. If the healer has an omg moment, you can allways switch to CS on the gcd and give everyone in a the party another reason to love you!
Jhingelshod (The Sha'tar)
Post by
Aedalas
Slam > Devastate x5 > Slam > Revenge > Devaste x2 > Slam > Revenge ... HS when rage is over 50, TC and Demo shout usually in the Devastates... that is my rotation and can hold between 800-1200 tps.
Looks fine except for that Shield Slam at the beginiing, you get more from Devastate and it doesn't take near the rage....a lot of stuff that is correct...Hi, welcome to wowhead! All payments can be mailed directly to Arideni, but I think he accepts Paypal now too.
Post by
Malekith
As the tooltip of Taunt says, this ability DOES NOTHING if the target is already attacking you. This is true in the sense that it causes no threat, but it can be useful for, as people have said, the time that the taunted target is focusing attacks on you. Now, unless the hunter is bursting a high amount of threat as soon as you pull, you shouldn't have to taunt.
The ability itself brings your threat up to equal with the person that has highest threat on the target. If you cause enough threat within the time the target is forced to focus attacks on you, the mob will remain yours until someone overaggro's.
On the Commanding Shout question, use it when you think you will need it. If your healer is good enough, or if you are sufficiently geared, then it may be beneficial for you to use Battle Shout to generate more threat. Battle Shout will become more useful to tanks in WOTLK when some of the tanking abilities' damage is based on your attack power.
Hope this helps.
Post by
195115
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Post by
Aedalas
With the changes to Devastate your best opener for TPS is DevX5, it used to be shield slam but the mechanics have changed.
Post by
Porcell
With the changes to Devastate your best opener for TPS is DevX5, it used to be shield slam but the mechanics have changed.
Are you saying that one devastate does more threat than one shield slam? Again, in heroics or trash, I will almost always open up with a shield slam for that initial burst of the threat.
Post by
18907
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Post by
axhed
^&*! the dps'ers. let em die once then tell 'em you keep taunt for the healer.
Post by
Aedalas
With the changes to Devastate your best opener for TPS is DevX5, it used to be shield slam but the mechanics have changed.
Are you saying that one devastate does more threat than one shield slam? Again, in heroics or trash, I will almost always open up with a shield slam for that initial burst of the threat.From Yakra's sticky:Until there are five sunders, Devastate is the highest threat you can generate per global cooldown. This is because in addition to the normal devastate damage, the threat of sunder armor is added. This added threat is not added once there are five sunders.
Post by
119446
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Post by
Aedalas
I'm not sure if anyone took into account that +SBV modifies Shield Slam, and if you have enough of it I'm sure it outdoes a Devastate's threat, but I'm not sure on numbers, does anyone know?
I've seen the number somewhere before but I can't remember it, I know its rather high though. As for which is better, Yakra is not usually wrong, I've also read this in a number of other forums as well.
Post by
Divisor
How about instead of you using taunt, you instruct the smartass huntard to use
Misdirection
on you. It will yield way better results in threat generation, it will allow him to start DPS-ing right away, and will get him off your back with whispers.
I usually keep taunt for healing crits when I'm tanking more than 2 mobs. At that point, usually one of the mobs finds out that the healer is quite squishy and starts to have kinky thoughts about him. I change the mob's mind with a swearing and Taunt. Yea, I usually talk thrash to the mobs I'm fighting, to let them know I mean it.
Post by
GrimAlchemist
A good source of info on the mechanics behind Taunt can be found in
these
two
articles.
As for starting a fight with Devastate or Shield Slam, we can take a look at some numbers. Assuming a tank just entering Karazhan, a Shield Slam for around 400 (800 crit) isn't unreasonable. Meanwhile, assuming you're wielding a weapon like
Sun Eater
, you could expect a first-hit Devastate to deal roughly 115 (330 crit) damage:
Innate Threat for Devastate is 119 (0 Sunder Devastate) + 301 for applying a Sunder = 420 threat.
Shield Slam has an innate threat of 307.
Assuming you are specc'd into Defiance, your threat multiplier will be 30% Defensive Stance + 15% Defiance. Bonus to threat is multiplicative, so 1.3*1.15=1.495, or almost 50% bonus threat.
So, you Shield Slam for (400+307)*1.5=1060.5 threat. (1660.5 crit)
Or, you Devastate for (115+420)*1.5=802.5 threat. (1098 crit)
Opening with Shield Slam is the ideal attack, with the added benefit that you immediately put Shield Slam on cooldown to be used again in 6 seconds, and with a nice crit you front-load massive threat allowing your DPS to go all out from the start.
Post by
Sakkura
A good source of info on the mechanics behind Taunt can be found in
these
two
articles.
As for starting a fight with 5x Devastate or Shield Slam, we can take a look at some numbers. Assuming a tank just entering Karazhan, a Shield Slam for around 400 (800 crit) isn't unreasonable. Meanwhile, assuming you're wielding a weapon like
Sun Eater
, you could expect a first-hit Devastate to deal roughly 115 (330 crit) damage:
Innate Threat for Devastate is 119 (0 Sunder Devastate) + 301 for applying a Sunder = 420 threat.
Shield Slam has an innate threat of 307.
Assuming you are specc'd into Defiance, your threat multiplier will be 30% Defensive Stance + 15% Defiance. Bonus to threat is multiplicative, so 1.3*1.15=1.495, or almost 50% bonus threat.
So, you Shield Slam for (400+307)*1.5=1060.5 threat. (1660.5 crit)
Or, you Devastate for (115+420)*1.5=802.5 threat. (1098 crit)
Opening with Shield Slam is the ideal attack, with the added benefit that you immediately put Shield Slam on cooldown to be used again in 6 seconds, and with a nice crit you front-load massive threat allowing your DPS to go all out from the start.
Your math is flawed since it only considers the first GCD. Elitist Jerks (or tankspot? probably the latter actually) have already proved that in the space of the opening seconds, it is better to open with 3 devastates before the first shield slam.
Post by
GrimAlchemist
I was looking at from the above from the perspective of the highest threat you can do on your first GCD. I haven't seen the information you've mentioned in regards to Devastate, I'm taking my numbers from Ciderhelm's testing on threat. Even if 3x Devastate produces more threat than 1 Shield Slam and 2x Devastate in the first 4.5 seconds (or more, considering latency), I would still prefer to use Shield Slam for several reasons. First, you cannot simply spam Shield Slam with it on a 6 second cooldown, and it's better to use it first and move to other abilities that sit on the GCD. Second would be, as far as putting on threat at the
very
beginning of a fight, Shield Slam is the highest Threat per Second you can put down, and I would prefer to give those few extra points in threat to create a cushion against an over-eager DPS'er or healer taking aggro at the start. The third is that chance to crit, creating a very heavy threat boost at the start and allowing for DPS to begin right away.
The only fights I do not consider using a Shield Slam to start would be encounters where I do not expect heavy healing or need DPS to begin from the very start, but I often begin with Shield Slam anyway out of habit since threat usually isn't an issue in those encounters.
I would be interested in seeing the numbers you mentioned on 3x Devastate though, if the mechanic behind it's threat has changed in such a way to make it a more appropriate opener. I'll even give it a try when I get back into my tanking work.
Post by
Sakkura
I would be interested in seeing the numbers you mentioned on 3x Devastate though, if the mechanic behind it's threat has changed in such a way to make it a more appropriate opener. I'll even give it a try when I get back into my tanking work.
It's been a while since the last changes to devastate threat generation.
By the way, I forgot to mention this before: the sunder armor debuff on a mob increases your damage done. This applies to both shield slam, autoattack and whatever else you do, increasing your threat generation when you focus on stacking devastates. It also increases your rage generation, allowing you a smoother, quicker use of abilities.
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