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Ret Vs. Holy
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Post by
Furiousa
Hi guys,
Currently i'm a 41/20/0 Holy Paladin. Recently, a few friends whom I play with often recommended me to go Ret. I've been thinking about this and I'm still pretty indecisive.
I like to PvP a lot more than PvE and find both Holy and Ret fun to play. Additionally, Ret seems to be looking very promising in WotLK. I have blue/green Holy and Ret gear at the moment and farming the bgs and arena for better PvP gear, though I'm willing to invest the honor and AP for one type of set only. Basically I havent really gone far as Holy so its not too late to turn back and go Ret. The door is still open.
I would like to know what the wowhead-ers think about this and what they would do if they were in my situation. I know it's really up to me and it's quite a "choose what you like" situation, but i'm having a hard time deciding. So I just want some input about this =) Thanks
Post by
Harmless
you ask ret or holy
my answer is yes
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Perenolde&n=Gwenethe
Post by
reyan
and change your forum avatar, valundar will be mad :P
Post by
Furiousa
Harmless, your build looks like a Shockadin build, though nothing I've seen before. I've tried Shockadin before and it didn't seem to work out that well. Though how does that build work for you? Does it go well in PvP?
Post by
161859
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ArgentSun
I have a hunch that you want to be ret. But the question really goes down to what you do in BGs/arenas - heal or DPS?
Post by
Lightsama
I like both specs but in all honesty, after grinding s2 sets with some offset pieces I find holy much more fun and challenging than ret, even though ppl say its easy its not, as holy most of our healing comes from casts and in pvp how you manage these casts and dodge interrupts makes it fun not to mention dispelling and buffing.
I only bg mostly, I used to arena but only to get the brutal scaled gloves and thats it.
Both are fun specs to play with but you need to make up your mind whent it comes to picking your gear .
Post by
177993
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Post by
42591
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Furiousa
Thanks for the input guys. In BGs I tend to do a lot more healing than dps. I only dps when the situation requires a bit more dps. So I suppose Holy would be the answer here.
However another thing came to my mind today. As I was doing my Quel'Danas dailies today without my mage friend, it struck me that my ability to kill was pretty bad. I can't seem to kill anything with relative efficiency. It either takes me too long or I just don't do enough damage and end up having to heal myself a few times before I finally beat the mob down.
My spell rotation is Judge Crusader -> Holy Shock -> Righteousness -> Judge when ready -> Reseal -> Holy Shock -> Repeat. Hammer of Wrath when the mob's at low hp. I would think that's the best dps rotation but I may be wrong. I got annoyed at my killing ability and decided to pull out my old Ret gear which I used to level up to 70 and used that instead. It worked out pretty well and I was able to kill things faster.
The question I'm asking here is what is the ideal method of killing things as Holy? I know I won't be killing things left and right but I don't want to be completely helpless when a mob starts beating me. I still have quests left over in Netherstorm and Shadowmoon Valley and I would like to be able to solo the non-group quests without taking ages to kill stuff.
Post by
Arannia
Thanks for the input guys. In BGs I tend to do a lot more healing than dps. I only dps when the situation requires a bit more dps. So I suppose Holy would be the answer here.
However another thing came to my mind today. As I was doing my Quel'Danas dailies today without my mage friend, it struck me that my ability to kill was pretty bad. I can't seem to kill anything with relative efficiency. It either takes me too long or I just don't do enough damage and end up having to heal myself a few times before I finally beat the mob down.
My spell rotation is Judge Crusader -> Holy Shock -> Righteousness -> Judge when ready -> Reseal -> Holy Shock -> Repeat. Hammer of Wrath when the mob's at low hp. I would think that's the best dps rotation but I may be wrong. I got annoyed at my killing ability and decided to pull out my old Ret gear which I used to level up to 70 and used that instead. It worked out pretty well and I was able to kill things faster.
The question I'm asking here is what is the ideal method of killing things as Holy? I know I won't be killing things left and right but I don't want to be completely helpless when a mob starts beating me. I still have quests left over in Netherstorm and Shadowmoon Valley and I would like to be able to solo the non-group quests without taking ages to kill stuff.
There is no other method. What you're doing is the correct way to kill things in Holy.
Also, you sound like you might enjoy Shockadin. Seriously.
You say you mostly heal but do clutch DPS. Thats fine.. collect the healing PvP set, socket it for spell damage, get spell damage enchants.. you can pretty much continue to play as you are now, but at improved efficiency. The great thing about the shockadin spec is you can play it however you like, so long as you gear correctly. My gear is almost all spell damage gear because I find myself throwing massive bursts of damage most of the time, while doing clutch heals. Its not the best way to play Holy, but its fun.
So yeah, get the ornamented set, socket and enchant for spell damage. Or healing, up to you.
Post by
Brique
What you're getting if you chose to spec shockadin:
10% increased holy damage
15% movement speed increse
8 second judgements
3% crit in your Judgment of the Crusader
And assuming you're using a standard Holy PvP build, you'd be throwing away Redoubt, buffed BoF and BoP, 3% hit, BoK, 10% stun resist + 30% dispel resist, and reduced silences. I've done dailies on my healers, and the only thing that makes killing a chore is the lack of spellhit. Add in a Consecrate if you feel safe with your mana. The lovely thing about this is that there is no chance of it resisting after the first tick.
While you might kill things (GUESSING) 10%-15% faster, you give up plenty of survivability and (all of your) utility. I'd say too much is thrown away to make Shockadin more viable than Holy. Focus on healing if you enjoy it. Play around with a Shockadin spec if it sounds interesting, but when I have, after 2-3 (Judement + Shock) bursts with constant Consecrations, you're done. DONE. You stop and drink. 8 second judgements are absolutely a 20% increase in damage. Theoretically. But they're also a 20% decrease in efficiency, because you're judging 20% faster. Add in the fact you don't have any spellhit and if that judgement resists, you just wasted a decent chunk of mana.
The problem with the spec is that people aren't realizing that Holy is the exact same thing. If I see any more Shockadin rhetoric, I'm going to bite my thumbs off.
Thats fine.. collect the healing PvP set, socket it for spell damage, get spell damage enchants..
Never do this. "Gearing correctly" for Shockadin means gearing incorrectly for any other role.
And respec's don't cost too much when you have so many sources of income available at 70. Full Retribution is better damage and efficiency than Shockadin will ever be.
Post by
Furiousa
I've tried Shockadin before and personally I didn't think it worked as well as the 41/20/0 standard Holy PvP build. As Brique said there's too much utility and survivability sacrificed.
How viable is Ret in raids? My guild is more PvE than PvP orientated and I would like to be able to PvE occasionally though I'm not sure if being Ret would end up spoiling my chances of getting invited to a raid or not have any affect at all.
Post by
142610
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Brique
http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t17193-paladin_retribution_dps_theorycraft/
The reason I'm pointing to this is one of the reasons Retribution is good for 25man raiding. The effect JoW has on the raid's mana users is (on average) better than using a Super Mana Potion (100 mp5) every cooldown, especially true for Enhancement Shaman (317.63 Mp5) and Hunters (220.23 Mp5.) If you're raiding with a Holy Paladin, and they can take time to judge Wisdom on a boss, you can keep it up using CS. You should have no problem pointing out the 3% crit, which is minor, but provides some noticeable benefits. You provide the raid with an extra blessing, which might be BoK or Imp BoM if you've talented for it. And DPS do bitch if they don't have their Blessing. The 2% increase in damage to your group is weak. It's not really worth pointing it out.
Yes, I raid with a Retribution Paladin. But only one. Their usefulness doesn't really multiply as you add more to the raid. So, if you're friendly with your guild, and no one else is competing for it, you have it made! But if you're doing 10mans for the most part, stay Holy.
And Retribution's DPS does scale very well with gear. Unlike the sad state of Feral DPS. :(
If you're looking to gear for Retribution, looking up rotations and gear isn't too hard. The
RETLOL
guide is well done. The Elitist Jerks (linked above!) thread has an in depth overview on the important things.
Max DPS
can provide an outline of gear you can obtain, and how they stack up to alternatives.
Rawr
gives you a chance to theorycraft without a math degree.
Post by
Furiousa
After a talk with the guild and a few 3v3 arena matches last night, I've decided to stay Holy. Thanks for all the info guys. Appreciate it =)
Now I just need a few pointers on killing more effectively as Holy. And uh...should I use a 2H or 1H?
Post by
142610
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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