This site makes extensive use of JavaScript.
Please enable JavaScript in your browser.
Live
PTR
10.2.7
PTR
10.2.6
Beta
Fury is the new PvP spec
Post Reply
Return to board index
Post by
122776
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Anarchy
Are you kidding? Have you seen ret paladins on the youtube videos?
Post by
122776
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Anarchy
Warriors will never be overpowered.
Post by
Knighthawk24
I think Arms is still going to be the premiere pvp spec. I think they added a few things to make Fury more viable in pvp but its still most effective for pve.
Don't count Arms out just because fury can duel wield 2hd'rs. Taste for Blood, Unrelenting Assualt, and Imp Overpower are extremely useful and bring Battlestance back as a useful stance. Bringing the use of Rend again to not only increase your dmg to that person from Blood Frenzy without waiting for a crit as well as a good chance of getting a high crit chance Overpower at your discretion, can really put the hurt on someone. And Sudden Death with Wrecking Crew will really bring the pain. And lets not forget the new Improved Mortal Strike, which has far more potential then just the heal reduction. Not only improved dmg but a respectable chance at back to back mortal strikes with everything else could certainly be a suprise assualt few can survive.
Remeber with pvp, its more about getting in fast and doing devestating burst dmg that the opponent can't handle, which is what Arms is all about. Fury is more for building up your dps and sustained output. And the advantage to being able to fight in Battle stance and not take nearly so much dmg.
And last but not least, lets not forget Bladestorm. Everything about it screams PVP. Aoe spinning attack, and most importantly, effectively Hunter Beastial Wrath. Immune to fear, stuns, cc, ect.
Post by
119023
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
177993
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
168039
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
18907
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
122776
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Flaks
For anyone considering arms to be > fury in pvp, you've got to remember that the warrior most important utility in pvp is the mortal strike debuff more than any damage they can put out. Now that fury has furious attacks talent, they have pretty much got an infinite mortal strike debuff on the target. I am really saddened by this turn of tables on the arms most significant talent. I'm going to put forth a proposition with which many may disagree- I believe that improved mortal strike should increase the healing reduction effect and/or pierce through armor or something of the like. To keep arms increasingly more viable heroic leap could be swapped with endless rage as the dps output of titan's grip would be an amazing complement to the increased rage generated from damage (leading to less rage starvation from miss) and bringing almost equal pvp and pve utility to the arms tree (the buff to imp mortal strike with a heroic leap swap may be a bit overpowered though so blizz could do one or the other). More on the topic, it seems to me that besides the raid wide increase lent through the +4% physical damage talent (forgot the name >.<), titan's grip talented fury warrior will still put out greater dps in pve builds. Things suck as taste for blood and other talents as such appeal to me greatly but one can still not ignore the fact that these minor increases in dps output will come nowhere close to fury's combined utility in pve and pvp; the only possible argument i can put forth for arms is that it can possibly be more advantageous to someone who would like to pvp, and pve worse than fury but still be able to tank a decent amount better. Thus, in my honest opinion, I believe that fury has become over inflated with amazing talents removing all possible utility from the arms talent in end game raiding or player against player battles.
Post by
icritmypants
Remeber with pvp, its more about getting in fast and doing devestating burst dmg that the opponent can't handle, which is what Arms is all about. Fury is more for building up your dps and sustained output. And the advantage to being able to fight in Battle stance and not take nearly so much dmg.
I suggest you check out the new talent tree, titan's grip no longer has a reduction and only takes 1 point.
Post by
Knighthawk24
Unfortunately I have not had the opportunity to participate in the WotLK beta and thus I can’t test the result of these changes, I can only surmise based on stats and descriptions. But firstly I think many people are not realizing or overlooking that Fury spec increases Attack power and so on, whereas Arms spec is increasing percentages of overall dmg.
By lilflip00 3 days ago
Because a whirlwind crit for 5k each weapon isnt burst damage at all.
From this my suspicion flag are raised and I must wonder at the conditions met to achieve this. The least critical at mind being the most likely that you, like so many others are comparing the dmg output with a T4/T5 range 2hd’r vs. 2 T6/Sunwell 1hd’rs. Naturally the dmg difference would be pronounced. Also if your comparing PvE 1hd’rs vs PvE mobs vs PvP geared players who will have significant Risiliance (a stat and addition to the game I personally detest and think has crippled WoW, but that’s me), who are going to receive far less actually dmg then your potential output, then that is an unfair assessment of PvP use.
By Odilthan 3 days ago
Bloodthirst>Mortal Strike
8sec WW with 2 2Hers>10sec WW with one 2Her
Enraged assault with 2 2Hers>with 1 2Her(and fury can enrage more often)
Fury can get instant slams as well, from bloodthirst which is refreshed by EA.
Arms gets more OPs, and BS.
Considering spec, I don’t think Bloodthirst is any better then Mortal Strike, which also gets the cooldown refresh effect from Imp Mortal Strike, and if your going PvP Arms and not going all the way, I would say your behind on the times. I think the days of half-and-half are for the most part gone. (God lets hope so!). And I don’t think you can say Enraged Assault with 2 2hd’rs is better without taking the effects of a full (relatively speaking) Arms spec, and the way pvp gear and weapons are designed, into consideration. And if you didn’t notice, fury no longer gets Imp Slam, and as I was informed by a wiser man then I, slam is not recommended for duel wielders because it interferes in their other more effective abilities. It was designed for 2hd wielders to have an additional attack in between Mortal Strike and auto-attacks. Though the timings of attacks with Titans Grip due to slower weapons in Fury build, I have yet to see and asses. And as for WW, read below.
And finally I don’t agree with so many PvP warriors always using Berserker Stance. Nearly everything about Arms talents (especially with the WotLK changes) is tailored to Battle Stance, which is a far more versatile and less self-destructive stance, which is crucial in PvP, where your dealing with more versatility of classes and personalities in your opponents. So many times do I handily beat a pvp warrior because they are always in Berserker stance desperate for that little 3% extra crit, hoping maybe they can put out enough dmg in that 1st Intercept to stave off the fate they’ve selected for themselves, but considering all the Risilience floating around, its to no avail and only opens them up to significant dmg received. PvP gear is going to give you more then enough crit, that which you get from Berserker Stance is not worth the sacrifice. So you don’t have WW, you’ll have BS if your desperate for an AoE swing. But since Arena’s (since that seems to be the money maker nowadays) aren’t full of 20 clothies past a line of melee ripe for the Wirlwield of pain (which is more useful if your duel wielding vs 1 2hd Arms), you’ll get more from the improved usefulness of rend, bleeds, the imp cooldown and availability of Overpower, Imp Slam, Mortal Strike, disarm at your fingertips, etc, % increases to all dmg from Arms spec vs the atk power increases from Fury (which is not the favored stat of pvp gear), receive less dmg, and you might do something few warriors can say they’ve done, survived without needing a healer behind them.
Also the way PvP gear is structured is survivability and moderate dmg potential in comparison to PvE gear (yes I said it. I was just today in a raid with a Full S2/3 and pvp geared Hunter (with the favored dps Beast spec and a wind serpent for all you hunter alts who know what that means) who did just barely what my hunter (in the widely considered inferior Marks spec) did with only Kara epics. And not even fully, still 4 blues.) And this is not a Hunter only example.
Post by
Frederic
And if you didn’t notice, fury no longer gets Imp Slam, and as I was informed by a wiser man then I, slam is not recommended for duel wielders because it interferes in their other more effective abilities.
No, it's because slam interrupts your white swing with both hands, which tends to clip at least one attack as your weapon swings tend to become desynchronized when dual-wielding.
So many times do I handily beat a pvp warrior because they are always in Berserker stance desperate for that little 3% extra crit, hoping maybe they can put out enough dmg in that 1st Intercept to stave off the fate they’ve selected for themselves, but considering all the Risilience floating around, its to no avail and only opens them up to significant dmg received.
The 3% crit has nothing to do with it. You cannot whirlwind in battle stance, and you cannot intercept, and you cannot interrupt spell casts without a shield + pummel macro, which takes two key presses to work, as you cannot use an ability after a gear swap in a macro. Battle stance has an inherent disadvantage to mobility and survivability against casters which cannot be made up for by the lack of a damage penalty.
So you don’t have WW, you’ll have BS if your desperate for an AoE swing.
It's not the AoE that's important, it's the weapon damage based swing on your target. The AoE is a bonus, nothing more. In addition, Bladestorm has a 90 second cooldown.
...the atk power increases from Fury (which is not the favored stat of pvp gear)
...yeah, about that...
Post by
Knighthawk24
I did not say that Berserker stance should never be used or that you shouldn't be versatile. If you look, Arms tree has Imp Intercept, implying Berserker Stance is still intended to be used in pvp, that it is useful and should not be simply ignored. Otherwise Intercept and Pummel would be usable in Battle stance. But that’s vs casters, which is a wholly different tactic and fight then melee and non-casters.
I do appreciate the comment, I did begin to rant more then constructively comment.
As for the WW, I’m referring to WotLK talents which reduce Overpower to a 3sec cooldown and rends and bleeds gives additional 30%chance to allow an overpower for 5sec, per tick, vs. an 8sec cooldown WW.
Yes, I agree zerker is good to get in close, hit a few buttons fast, but why not switch to Battle stance once your in close? You can still Hamstring in Battlestance. You probably already burned most of you rage on the initial charge/swings, so your not losing anything in the switch, and then with the bleeds already up or the rend from Battle stance, you can MS, Overpower, Slam, etc.
As for atk power, yes I know pvp gear mostly gives straight atk power, and that’s more to normalize everyone with the gear to a set figure and not give significant stats to prevent large dmg bonuses from buffs such as Kings. Which for the pvp aspect is good so its more about the difference in the competitors skills more so then gear.
And finally as for Slam, I am fully aware of why it is not recommended for duel wielding and I assumed others did also so I didn’t feel the need to spell it out and be more of a condescending jerk then I already appear to be. Sorry.
Post by
Frederic
One thing to keep in mind is the measly 3% crit from Berserker Stance is the polar opposite of 118.2 resilience rating.
Post Reply
You are not logged in. Please
log in
to post a reply or
register
if you don't already have an account.