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PTR
10.2.7
PTR
10.2.6
Beta
Controlling Agro
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Post by
176769
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Post by
150134
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Post by
172269
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Post by
Dunsinane
Learning how to control your threat is a big part of being a warlock. We have some of the worst tools available while doing some of the highest damage. Dots make it more awkward - affliction warlocks can't simply stop casting when they approach the tank's threat level and wait it out.
Some things to consider:
Run with paladins whenever possible. Blessing of Salvation is a godsend. Ask for it specifically.
Spec into Improved Drain Soul and, later, Destructive Reach for threat reduction.
Know your tanks. Warriors and druids will often take several seconds to build up significant amounts of threat, particularly when they're still leveling. Once they have their devastates down, they have a much easier time building threat. Paladins, conversely, are able to frontload much more easily with Avenger's Shield and a Judgement.
Test their threat generation during the early, easier pulls of an instance. Perhaps give them a five-second head start the first time, then four if they're able to hold... Give extra lead time when dealing with boss encounters
Wait until the tank has the mobs positioned before casting. He may need to pull them away from patrols. Also, warriors and druids can't generate much threat at range, and even a single dot is likely to overwhelm the tiny amount of threat a gunshot does.
Give some extra time if a warrior has to hold multiple mobs. His threat generation is largely single target, and he'll have to hit each of those mobs individually to keep them off of the healers.
At 66 you'll be getting Soulshatter, which will help.
Be very concerned with any tank that doesn't have a threat meter.
Post by
Thirsan
Wait until tank have enough aggro, the first seconds are crucial. With a war, wait until 3xSunder Armor (debuff on mob). Generally wait until tank have 2 or 4k threat (with Omen) and begin cast. When you first SB land, tank will have 6k or more threat. You can cast CoEl at the pull (no damage, no aggro).
Dot aggro required... experience ^^
Soulshatter is great for avoid wipe when your SB crit
If you have a Paladin in group, ask for Blessing of Salvation (-30% threat !) instead of Blessing of Kings (+10% to all stats)
Post by
Celdhyrean
A dps class will build agro faster than a tanking class if they both start at the same time and can fight the boss for the same amount of time (ie no adds that the dps have to switch too or movements, ...).
A tank can taunt the mobs when you overagro in order to prevent them from attacking you, but there's a 10s CD and it can be resisted.
Some things to remember about how threat works:
- you don't take agro just by passing the tanks threat. You need to reach 110% of the tanks threat (if you are in melee range) or 130% (if you are at a distance). This means that you can dps more from a distance than if you are near the mob, and that moving towards the mob (or having the mob charge someone near you) can be enough to get agro.
- dots can't be stopped if you get near the agro ceiling (except CoA). DDs can be stopped, you just need to stop casting. Thus, while your dots are your best dps spells as a levelling warlock, it can sometimes be smart not to use them (or to maintain a bigger threat margin than you would otherwise) in order to have a better control of your threat.
- Look at the tanks threat generation and the size of the gap between you and the tank, and plan accordingly. (for example, i wait till the tank has at least a ~5k lead before pulling out the big guns because i know i can crit for over 6k, making such a margin a necessity)
Place well and know where to stop and it should work.
There are a few things to help, but a number of those will only be available in raids (ie probably not often available to you yet).
- Blessing of Salvation : -30% threat for you, quite certainly the best for managing your agro
- Soulshatter : -50% of your current agro, can be resisted and is on a 5min CD. Will be quite usefull once you have it, but since the CD is somewhat long you won't be able to use it on all fights (untill you start raids and only use it on boss fights)
- Totem of Tranquil Air : -30% reduction for the party. Effects the tank too in 5 man instances (unless the shaman is smart with the range of the aura), so much less usefull than the paladin version. Still, not something to be neglected depending on circumstances)
- Subtlety : cloack enchant for -2% threat generation. Doesn't seem like much but every bit helps (and there's nothing better for casters anyway (resistance or penetration)). Quite costly though, so wait until you get a good cloak to use it on.
- Talents : both in destruction and affliction, you have talents for -10% threat, you should have the affliction one at least in a levelling build. At 70, you'll want ot have both.
To comment more practically on your current situation, i'd say that if your dots are enough to overagro a mob from a distance when you stop SB spam at 75% of threat (ie going from 75% to 130% while the tank is still upping his threat), then there's definitely a problem.
Either the tank is not doing his job, or you are dotting up all the mobs from the pack instead of casting on the focus target only (a paladin tank is probably about the only levelling tank that might hold agro over several fully dotted mobs)/dotting to early compared to what the tank has to do on that aprticular pull.
Post by
176769
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Post by
Celdhyrean
You weren't completely wrong : the role of a dps is to do as much damage as you can
but
not at the cost of taking agro. Because that wastes a lot of time with the tank running around, healers having to change targets to someone who isn't supposed to get hit, and so on. If the situation allows you to start right off the bat and dps all mobs that are present, then by all means do so. However that's mostly a raid situation (misdirection from hunters on the tank, salvation on dps, soulshatter, ...).
So what you're doing is the right thing in an ideal case, but you have to adapt and calm down depending on the situation. That's where the "waiting time" and "focus only one mob" enter the equation.
Additionally on "focusing one or several mobs", basically the dots of an affliction lock are quite powerfull and can work at full power on several ennemies at a time, whereas most tanks tools to increase their threat are single target abilities (well, except paladins). With a warrior or druid tank, you might want to dot the focused mob fully and the others lightly or not at all. With a paladin tank you should be able to dot more (starting with the focused mob), but at 70 you'd rather use Seed of Corruption anyway.
The place where you'll really multidot is in raids when there are several mobs that have to be tanked by separate tanks. They are all doing their best on each mob allowing you to go fully out with your dots.
Fire : only searing pain has a bonus threat component. All other fire spells work on the same principle than shadow spells, ie 1 damage = 1 threat.
Omen shows myself at 120% without taking agro, i don't know if there's an option to equate the 100% to the "stealing agro bar" rather than to the "tank threat bar". It's better to be quite clear on that, because certain boss mechanics require you to be under 100% threat, even if you could go higher without stealing agro. (Prince Malchezaar in Karazhan for example has an ability can result in a tank with 1 health point if people don't watch their agro)
Post by
asakawa
You can cast CoEl at the pull (no damage, no aggro).
i wanted to comment on this because without a good understanding of what's going on it is bad advice.
CoE is a non-damage curse but that doesn't mean it has no threat. it does and can pull mobs quite easily if you're too hasty.
i think the times i have trouble with this most is with a pally tank, if their avenger's shield misses on the pull. this means that the tank has effectively body pulled as they've caused no damage and your curse, cast in the time between the missed shield and the pally's judgement can cause issues.
Post by
151709
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Post by
Thirsan
ok for CoEl, it generate a few aggro... but very few. Just don't pull with it ! (But you can cast CoEl on sheep, i've tested it ^^)
If your tank make a few damage to the mob, CoEl is not a problem.
If someone knows the threat done by CoEl, he's welcome ;o)
Post by
201605
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Post by
Celdhyrean
@lorkk : warlock threat building is a very simple equation (excluding Searing Pain) : 1 damage = 1 threat
Dots or no dots, crits or no crits, it's the same. There is NO way that you can "have your dps go down a bit and not pull agro half as much". The relationship between both is linear (with a factor 1.3 because of the 130% rule).
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