This site makes extensive use of JavaScript.
Please enable JavaScript in your browser.
Live
PTR
10.2.7
PTR
10.2.6
Beta
Hunter builds in WotLK
Post Reply
Return to board index
Post by
201790
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
mudphud
I would take a point out of spirit bond and put it into beast mastery. I don't see any reason to fill up the beast mastery tree and not get the final talent (beast mastery). Even if you don't want an exotic pet the extra 5 points should do more to keep your pet alive than the extra point in spirit bond. Also would be nice to get improved hunter's mark for a raid (at least one hunter should have it). Take a point from frenzy (seems like 80% should still keep it up (especially with cobra strikes) and maybe take out invigoration since beast masters don't usually have problems with mana.
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=ctbMzxtRwu0est0eAb
Post by
36177
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
CtrlAltDel
I would take a point out of spirit bond and put it into beast mastery. I don't see any reason to fill up the beast mastery tree and not get the final talent (beast mastery). Even if you don't want an exotic pet the extra 5 points should do more to keep your pet alive than the extra point in spirit bond. Also would be nice to get improved hunter's mark for a raid (at least one hunter should have it). Take a point from frenzy (seems like 80% should still keep it up (especially with cobra strikes) and maybe take out invigoration since beast masters don't usually have problems with mana.
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=ctbMzxtRwu0est0eAb
Did you see that Spirit Bond has gotten an upgrade from it's current form? It (in the beta talents) also increases all healing done to you and your pet by 5-10%. A welcome change I suppose.
Just keep that in mind before thinking it's the same as it is now.
Post by
201987
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
skribs
Uh...animal handler won't do much for raiding, since pets will get the hunter's +hit. If you're not hit-capped you're gimping YOUR damage, and if you are hit-capped the talent only reduces the cooldown on master's call. My spec would be
this
, taking points from BD or frenzy to put into SB as my gear gets better and my crit can handle my pet's focus.
My thought is that survival probably isn't going to be pumping as much damage (more of a damage buffer, which I dont want to be as I was a healing buffer on my druid for most of my raiding in TBC), and marksmanship - while having some really big numbers - just doesn't have any mana regeneration (except while under the effects of rapid killing...which won't help on a boss fight).
Another advantage BM has over MM or SV is that just with serpent's swiftness and a quiver a BM hunter can get steady shot below 1.5 second cast time, while it takes an extra 15.94% haste for an MM/SV hunter (or 0.82% during an IAotH proc) to bring steady shot down to GCD level.
I would also justify not taking imp tracking by saying that separation anxiety (assuming you're far enough away, which you should be if you wanna be outside AoE range) should be more effective than 1% extra damage from you (as I assume Imp Tracking to be) and that GFtT and Aimed Shot are worth a small dip in damage.
The only question then is if Imp Hunter's Mark is better than another talent (like careful aim or 3 points in separation anxiety) in terms of pet DPS.
Post by
139482
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
36177
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Jerky
I'm not playing hunter (at high levels anyway) but i find marksmanship pretty nice and hopefully viable for raiding.
With this build
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=ceb0zZzeV0oAzheseuAo
I believe that the hunter could pretty much spam his abilities without ever going OOM and having to stick with auto-attacks.
Not sure if hunters suffer from this atm, but if they do, then this might be a way to negate that.
You're welcome to critisice and leave comments on this, as I said, I'm not very good at hunters, just know that my hunter often goes OOM in instances and I really hate it (I'm switching between BM/MM and MM/Survival on my hunter)
Post by
skribs
Actually, if pets are doing 33% of your DPS, then SA = Imp Tracking. If a pet is doing "half" of the DPS between you and him, he's actually doing equal. If your pet is doing 1/3 and you are doing 2/3 of the DPS, that's when you're doing double. It remains to be seen whether or not pets are doing that much extra.
As to Rapid Recuperation, most people don't notice that is says "Rapid Killing" instead of "Rapid Fire." My guess is they see "Rapid" and think "Rapid Fire" because most people remember only the names of base abilities, not talents, unless it's pointed out to them.
Marksmanship would sacrifice a lot of DPS by keeping viper sting active on the target. Serpent Sting is going to be one of the most powerful abilities a hunter has (especially since it ignores armor) and you'd lose a lot of damage from CS, the combination of the 2 shots (imp SS and CS) is what I thought would bring MM to the high DPS it should be.
I guess I'll have to wait until wrath is about to come out and look at one of cheeky's spreadsheets, but a good raid build is one that can do the most damage and last the fight (or if you do go OOM, the rest of the damage you did makes up for the damage you lose by auto-shotting). Also, with a CS+LnL build you have to remember that if CS procs LnL, you will have to wait 6 seconds to use your free arcane shots (even though the arcane shots would cause no cooldown, CS causes a 6 second cooldown for AS). While you can hit AS at 6, 7.5, and 9 seconds after CS, it's not going to be as instant as you'd like, although now I think of it it's not that bad (and would help a bit with mana costs).
If you do go for a marksman build, I'd also consider instead of doing 6/12 arcane-shot/chimera-shot rotations, instead of CS every 10 seconds.
As to shot rotations, haste, and steady shot, my point was not that haste is going to be important to shot rotations, but rather that there is sort of a "cap" for haste at which point it is not as good as it once was. Hit is still better up to the hit cap, but after that it takes 1.4x the crit rating to mean 1% crit as it takes haste to mean 1% haste. Haste affects white damage and steady shot up to 33.34% total haste (which with the way things stack means 15.94% haste not-from quiver), after that it only affects white damage. Steady shot will probably be casted 70% of the time, meaning that while it is only one ability - haste will surely affect it. And...bringing steady shot down to a 1.5 second cast time actually lessens either dead time or the cooldown of the other shots (depending on whether you wait for the cooldown or just cast another SS and hit your next CD later). On an SS+Arcane-Shot rotation, you could see either 0.78 seconds of dead time per arcane shot or an extra 0.96 seconds added to the cooldown, depending on whether you cast 3 or 4 steady shots. With the proper haste, you would cast 4 steady shots and AS would still be hit on the 6 second mark. While it may not affect auto-shot damage to bring your SS to a certain point, it sure affects your special damage.
Haste for hunters is like hit for rogues - once you hit the cap for special attacks it's still useful, but not as useful as it once was.
If my mana pool could last long enough (and/or I could get more DPS with AotV up in marks than AotH up in BM/SV) then I would certainly go marks, but for now it looks like marks will be PvP and shorter fights (e.g. heroics).
Post by
Jerky
Actually, I did not misread the ability Rapid Recuperation, but figured that 60% discount on shots were good, since i assume rapid fire is up as soon as the cd is done.
Still, i see the validity of your points and bow/salutes them.
Could i bother you for an example-build, that you would consider playing? In Marksman that is.
Post by
skribs
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=ctbMzZ0eVboAzuxsxzAox00b
is probably what I would go with for marksmanship. I know I skipped out on a couple talents other people picked up (namely wild quiver and piercing shots, as well as rapid killing) and here's why:
Wild Quiver - 6% increase in auto-shot damage for 3 points. Not really worth it unless auto-shot is more than half your damage.
Piercing Shots - Ignoring 6% of the target's armor, if you assume the target has 40% armor reduction, this would only be a 2.46% damage increase for steady shot and aimed shot only. Not worth 3 points unless the target has a much higher amount of armor (like say more than armor-capped). This would likely lead to less of a DPS increase than wild quiver.
Rapid Killing - Rapid Fire has a 5% uptime, basically leading to a 2% increase in overall DPS for affected abilities (auto-shot and maybe other shots if you are not haste-capped). 2 talent points brings it up to an 8.3% up-time, or 3.33% damage increase. I don't think that 2 talent points is worth 1.33% damage increase on auto-shot and *maybe* other shots.
The glyph which increases haste by an additional 8% would only buff auto-shot damage, and that would make this go from a 2.4% damage increase to a 4% damage increase, meaning 1.6% damage increase in white damage for 2 points if you waste a glyph as well. Really not worth it
Windfury totem is 20% haste from an enhancement shaman, and 16% from any other kind of shaman. Obviously you want to be within 30 yards for totems.
Sorry, just saw your post, and last I heard WF was only melee haste. Now that I know otherwise, 16% haste would put an MM or SV hunter where they need to be. I still think that MM will suffer due to mana issues, however SV does have some nice stuff going for it. With all the pet buffs, however, pets may still allow BM to do more damage. It has to wait to be seen.
The only thing Rapid Killing would help with is Rapid Recuperation, but a 60% reduction in mana cost every 3 minutes isn't going to help too much if you ask me (for 5 talent points, you have a total of 4.98% reduction in mana cost of spells overall, or 3% reduction for 3 talent points. Compare to efficiency, at 2% per talent point, and you're not missing much by skipping this talent.
That's assuming your pet gets 100% of your hit rating in its hit rating. I'm not in the beta, so I don't know. I'd guess that the pet gets a percentage and not the full benefit of hit however.
I believe they said for warlocks "the pets will get the master's hit" and then for hunters "If we did it for warlocks, we'll do it for hunters too." So my assumption is it will be 100% of the rating.
The problem with seperation anxiety is that you only have a 10 yard range to move around in. Move too far out, and you lose the enh. shamans totems. Move too close, and you lose 10% pet damage. Just seems like it's too much work for too little gain. Not to mention that if the raid and/or boss needs to be repositioned, you might not get the bonus at all.
On fights like that it won't matter too much anyway. However, if I were to sacrifice separation anxiety, my build would probably look like:
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=ctbMzggRVuMesz0eAbo
Picking up spirit bond (mainly for the buff to my healing done to my pet) and imp hunter's mark. In fact...I kinda like that change. Way to inspire me :)
Post by
skribs
We plan to give all pets the master's +hit%.
Source
If we do it for Warlocks, we'll do it for Hunters too (%hit).
source
Just to show where I got my information.
EDIT:
As to separation anxiety...now that I think of it, I believe 10% pet damage is better than 16% auto-shot damage, maybe 20% (consider JUST auto-shot would be affected by the totem, since you should have Serpent's Swiftness and be beyond haste-capped if you're this deep in BM), so I may actually stay with the old planned build.
Post by
166425
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post Reply
You are not logged in. Please
log in
to post a reply or
register
if you don't already have an account.