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IDS vs Mental Strength
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Post by
SeaOfHoles
Issue: IDS is basically cut in half in WOTLK.
Assume 500 Spirit, 500 Intellect.
IDS - +30 damage, +30 healing
MS - +450 mana, +16 MP5, +0.38% crit strike
I am thinking that unless you are a raider (giving IDS to lots of people), MS looks like better option for 5mans?
Post by
k0rr
go deep disc or deep holy then
wotlk's disc tree is looking DAMN sexy
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?priest=503230013050512200132503105123505000030000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
the 3 points in improved healing can be put in inspiration if you find yourself not having that many mana problems (if you're getting 2 innervates per boss fight).
this build makes great use of the shield. grace has been nerfed to only give -3% damage instead of -6% so i left it out of my build. this build is awesome for 5 mans and being a raid keeper.
crit heals will proc inspiration (if you got it instead of improved healing), as well as divine aegis. you have pain supression and a very very effective pw: shield as an oh $#!7 button. penance also keeps getting better every patch. theres also a fast-casting mass dispel to boot.
this build will be the healer that everyone hates in BGs
anyway, to answer your main question...
yes. MS is better than IDS if you already have someone buffing you with it already, but if you had to choose between the 2, i would pick IDS. then you wont have to depend on that one priest to show up with IDS every raid. i dont know anyone that's had to choose between IDS or MS before...i wouldnt go 20+ points into disc without either getting IDS, or both. mental strength really just gives you enough mana for one more heal. you forget that +spirit adds passive mp/5 to the priest too.
may i ask for the talent build that you're using? if you're deep holy you will be +heal and +spr stacked so having IDS may actually benefit you better than MS (RLs and druids will be looking to innervate you).
if you are looking to be the ultimate PvE healer, however, a deep holy build may suit you better.
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?priest=053200013000000000000000000023505003030015053005331351000000000000000000000000000
the last point, personally, would be spent in healing prayers, but some people prefer lightwell.
like i said before, this build is reliant on +heal and +spr stacking. but if you got just one innervate per boss fight it should be cake for you to keep up whoever you need to keep up. 2 innervates would eliminate most/all your mana problems.
Post by
SeaOfHoles
Well, I am not a raider. I am 5Man, Solo, PvP.
Second, agreed on the Spirit. I am getting all the talents that buff Spirit. IDS is not one of those, since its only a damage/healing buff. Hence my thinking about getting Mental Strength, since 1 SPI = 2 INT in terms of MP5.
Here is one
option
I was thinking about.
I am surprised you didn't get Enlightenment. I think that looks like a big winner where its located in the Disc tree now.
Post by
k0rr
didnt have the points to spare. as the deep disc tree focuses around using shield and heals when weakened resolve is up. i've focused all the points on improving healing and shield's power.
since you said you're solo/5man/pvp, i would say the deep disc build would be a lot better for you. 5 mans dont require the ridiculous amounts of healing power needed to keep a tank alive for 10 minutes.
one main problem i see in your build:
-holy nova, rarely used, the only time i've ever used it in the life of my priest is on the vael fight. literally, the only time.
-searing light - may help you grind a bit, but in pvp its not worth the mana to be casting these spells, healing yourself and teammates works better. and since spellpower is being unified, your smite/holy fires will be hitting for good enough. i'd rather take these 2 points along with the 3rd in holy nova and put it into blessed recovery for pvp.
and by the way, use the mmo-champion talent calculator, wowhead's is still stuck on build 8820, the latest is 8885. enlightenment has been changed too, so you might hesitate a bit to get it.
i just hate getting 5% for 5 talent points, in any talent, whether its 5% more healing, 5% more stats, whatever. its usually not worth 5 talent points in my book. if you had 750 int, +5% more would be about 33 int. yes its a good amount but thats 5 talent points you cant spend anywhere else. 5 talent points spent on something like "Causes 45% of the damage absorbed by pw:shield to be reflected at the attacker. this effect causes no threat" would be a lot more worth it to me. or splitting the 5 talent points apart and getting 2-3 other talents would probably do more good than +33 int. if i use talent points i look to gain at least 2% of something per talent point.
trying to use your mentality, i would do a build something along the lines of...
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?priest=503232013002512200130000000023505030030015050130000000000000000000000000000000000
silent resolve will help in making full use of your pw:shield, because the classes that can dispel it, most likely will. and that includes your fort and spirit buffs too, making IDS somewhat less desirable for pvp.
i still think my deep disc build would be better because more use of instacast spells (renew, shield) equals higher mobility. and the disc build is designed to really %^&* off the classes that cant dispel. not to mention your heals get +6% crit on players with weakened soul. crit heals in pvp saves lives.
Post by
Eliandor
Mental strength was and will still be a mediocre talent to take alone. The only worthwhile purpose in taking it thus far was to open up Power Infusion, which prior to being a haste buff was negligible.
Post by
Percy1
Mental Strength is a fantastic talent in wotlk. On live its one of our worst talents.
The change to 15% more intellect from 10% more mana is just huge. Intellect is going to be a lot more important for disc priest and having a passive 15% buff is great. You should have 5/5 in it, without question. Of course you should have IDS too... so I guess the answer to the OPs question is 'both'. You don't need Silent Resolve (unless you're ALWAYS stuck with crap tanks), which I'm guessing is what you're wasting your points on and creating this dilemma.
But if you PvP then yeah get silent resolve, I always forget about that PvP thing..
Another note: 6% more spell power from Improved DS is a buff from 10% more healing from old Impoved DS.
Example: 500 Spirit.
Old IDS: 500*.10 = 50 extra healing
50 * .53 = 26.5 more spell power.
New IDS: 500*.06 = 30 extra spell power.
30 > 26.5 The 'nerfed' IDS is actually a buff!
Post by
k0rr
You don't need Silent Resolve (unless you're ALWAYS stuck with crap tanks), which I'm guessing is what you're wasting your points on and creating this dilemma.
bad tanks arent just the only reason to get this talent. there are bad dps who pull aggro and require healing (therefore higher healing threat). there are undergeared tanks. there are multi-mob pulls where you have a warr/druid who's not skilled at holding them all. there are pulls which do high aoe dmg and require you to spam CoH/PoH, and that generates a lot of threat.
if you have 3 points to spare and you're a pve priest, you can never go wrong with this talent. being a clothie and all theres almost nothing you could do when you pull aggro. try fading and if that fails (or your tank fails to pick them back up before fade expires) then you can bubble (which doesn't last long vs heroic mobs and up) or fear (situational), but thats about it. almost always you'll be 1-3 shotted by heroic melee mobs.
Post by
SeaOfHoles
It doesn't say spell power though, it says 6% healing and damage.
Post by
Percy1
6% healing and damage means spell power. They havn't updated that text yet...for some reason.
You don't need Silent Resolve (unless you're ALWAYS stuck with crap tanks), which I'm guessing is what you're wasting your points on and creating this dilemma.
bad tanks arent just the only reason to get this talent. there are bad dps who pull aggro and require healing (therefore higher healing threat). there are undergeared tanks. there are multi-mob pulls where you have a warr/druid who's not skilled at holding them all. there are pulls which do high aoe dmg and require you to spam CoH/PoH, and that generates a lot of threat.
I will concede that if you are forced to regularly group with bad players then Silent Resolve is a good investment. I've healed every raid instance and even many PuG heroics without it so I can guarentee to you that it IS possible. I just use PoM and renews a lot so my healing aggro isn't very front-loaded and it gives the tank time to build threat. Having a good sense of your healing power and knowing when to fade properly is also very effective.
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