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Ultimate Hunter DPS In WotLK?
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Post by
94480
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Post by
129
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Post by
skribs
Actually I'm starting to think MM will be. Yeah, SS is great, but all BM hunters get for their personal DPS is TBW, SS, and the first two tiers of cookie cutter DPS specs. Those first 2 tiers are also available to MM hunters, and SS doesn't stack up against all the other talents marks gets. Without Chimera Shot, a marksman hunter should be out-DPSing a BM hunter (not including pet) and chimera shot is very powerful. The new high-end talents help a lot, as does the changes to TSA (a survival hunter should get about a 24-25.84% bonus in AP, depending on how they stack up).
That being said, it remains to be seen if the pet gets buffed enough to where a BM pet out-DPSes an MM pet by enough to account for an MM hunter's extra DPS. BM hunters will likely be using AotV less as well.
Survival...I have no idea as I haven't compared survival DPS yet. And it's all beta so it all could change. But that's what I'm thinking.
Post by
94480
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Post by
skribs
Hals, I've done the math. An MM hunter will be doing more DPS than a BM hunter sans pet. Think about it: MM hunters get a lot of buffs to their DPS that BM hunters dont, because BM hunters get a lot of talents that buff the pet.
As to "chimera shot isn't that powerful" if serpent sting is up it is very powerful. 125% weapon damage means it scales better than anything, especially since SS scales with AP. If you have the glyphs of SS (both serpent and steady) and you have imp stings and imp steady shot talented, CS will be adding a lot of damage per cooldown.
Like I said, I haven't factored pets in because nobody knows what damage their abilities will do or how they will scale at 80 (most of their ability's damage numbers are placeholders) but MM isn't going to be nearly as weak in WotLK as it is in TBC.
Post by
129
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Post by
Kroeber
Hals, I've done the math. An MM hunter will be doing more DPS than a BM hunter
sans pet
.
lol, hope you didn't strain yourself with that theorycrafting. :)
I, too, think that the PvE DPS gap will be much smaller between BM and MM. As for who will come out on top... I will guess BM, since they have to focus more on pet management and upkeep. (As trivial as that may be or seem at times, and as much as people might laugh at it, heh.)
But then again, if those promises about pet tanking ability hold true, maybe BM will take a hit to DPS as compensation for some added versatility.
I am sure we can all agree on one thing though, that it is still way too early to know anything for certain.
Post by
skribs
Like I said, I HAVE NOT done testing for pets yet, mainly because there is no idea how much damage pets will do. We don't have level 80 base values or how much damage their spells will do after their placeholder stats are replaced with real stats. You could say the same about hunters, but it's easier to make educated guesses there by comparing level 80 gear to level 70 gear.
Chimera shot shares a 6-second cooldown with arcane shot, although it has a 10 second cooldown. So you can do Multi+Chimera. However, with Imp Arcane Shot, you would get more DPS out of alternating Chimera and Arcane Shot every 6 seconds.
As to efficiency, if you run low you pop AotV for a few seconds and you're back to full. Yeah efficiency matters some, but it's not the be-all-end-all it is now.
Post by
139482
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Post by
skribs
Most of my math is in spreadsheets on excel, not just simple math on paper. But let's look at it this way...
What does a BM hunter offer to the HUNTER's DPS that an MM does not have access too? TBW and SS. So that's a 20% increase in auto-shot DPS (which is about a 7% increase in overall DPS) and a 16% increase in steady shot DPS (probably another 7% or so) so you can look at SS like 13-15% increase in damage. Assuming you have TBW on a 70 second cooldown, it would be active about 26% of the time, for a grand total of 2.6% increase in DPS. So overall in BM, you get about a 17-19% increase from BM.
What does an MM build offer that a BM build doesn't? Well, a BM build probably won't make it to survival instincts unless they're going LnL (which would be a waste because steady shot would do more DPS than arcane shot anyway, assuming you don't have the talents to buff arcane shot), and an MM hunter will pick up 5% damage increase, 10% extra crit damage on marked targets with special shots (about a 1.6% increase in DPS) as well as a straight 10% increase in shot damage on marked targets (probably a 9% increase if serpent sting isn't included), not to mention a 6% increase in auto-shot damage (probably about 2% overall) and slight AP and agility buffs from combat experience. Oh yeah, and you get 25.6% extra attack power. If a BM hunter has 3200 AP, the same hunter in an MM spec would have 4020 AP. That extra 820 AP acounts for a lot of DPS, especially when you're getting about a 27.3% increase in DPS from other various talents. I am not including Wild Quiver, Piercing Shots, Improved Steady Shot, Barrage, Improved Barrage, Improved Stings, or Improved Arcane Shot or Chimera Shot into that calculation of 27.3% (even if they were listed).
So yes, an MM hunter should do a lot more DPS than a BM hunter sans pet. Once more pet details are in, it can be decided whether a BM Hunter + Pet will out-DPS an MM hunter + pet.
EDIT: Forgot about FI. However, 3% increase in DPS would push BM hunters to maybe 22% increase in personal DPS, whereas (sans a lot of talents and before AP increases) an MM hunter would get a 27% increase. Add in an extra 800+ AP and some of the other talents, and MM is doing far better on a personal level.
Of course, next patch they could completely nerf or buff one of the trees, so it really doesn't matter at this point anyway. I just wanna get my spreadsheets made so that I (hopefully) only have to make minor changes as they buff/nerf/fix/change the class.
Post by
94480
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Post by
180239
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Post by
RadioBandit
FI only affects the hunter, you can take that out of the synergy equation. Due to the unlinking of Steady Shot from Auto Shot, Serpents Swiftness shows zero DPS returns on Steady Shot past the GCD, which is already exceeded due to the high amounts of haste applicable to a BM hunter, though auto shot DPS will continue to rise. TSA also works as a raid-wide 10% gain on AP, but does not stack with Abominations Might/Unleashed Rage. These are some things to take into account when debating 'top' DPS slots.(MM also looks a bit funner than BM currently =P)
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176705
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39302
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