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Why do people expect to roll for shards?
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Post by
234288
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161330
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Post by
Spalding
First off leave your "L2" and "QQ" somewhere else, I want this to be a serious discussion for enchanters and non-enchanters.
I am an enchanter and my question is, Why does everyone expect you to disenchant blues/purple in dungeons that is not an upgrade for anybody and everyone in party roll for the shard?
So, if you don't have a one-sided mind and really think about this it makes sense. Us enchanters need these shards to level up our enchanting. Also now in Wrath, we need shards to purchase new recipes from the vendor in Dalaran.
There is no gathering profession that goes with enchanting like mining/blacksmithing etc. Disenchanting stuff is our only way to get mats to level up unless you expect us to buy them all. So if I'm expected to give you a shard because you feel the need to roll for it, then why don't we roll for that ore you just mined or that leather you just skinned? See what i'm getting at here?
Now to clarify things, when my enchanting is maxed and i have bought all my new recipes with the shards, then I'll be glad to let party roll for them but until then it's not going to happen. When a blue or whatever drops in a dungeon you should "Need" if its an upgrade for you and all esle party "greeds". If i happen to win then i'm DE'ing for myself and if you win then you do whatever you want with it.
With that said, I would really like to see some opinions from enchanters and non enchanters.
1. Because the party acquired the shard.
2. Shards have cash value, some people like to sell them. As the party earned the shard and the player won the roll (in most cases), they are entitled to sell them if they want. You are also entitled to offer them money on the spot for the shard. A lot of times, people who intend to auction shards will do this.
3. Other people hold shards for their own enchantments. I don't know of too many enchanters that walk around with a proper inventory of mats. Thus, when I need enchantments (usually every time I replace/upgrade gear), it helps to go to my own bank to withdraw the mats (rather than paying stupid prices for AH inventory).
4. It isn't the role of a party to assist you in leveling your enchanting. You aren't going to help me level my blacksmithing, alchemy, or otherwise. Why should I help you acquire mats with which to level a profession? Blacksmithing or engineering is by far more difficult to level than enchanting.
If it's your way of thinking that you are leveling your enchanting for the improvement of the "realm community", you also need to consider that tank is upgrading his gear to improve your run's success, that healer's gear has been upgraded to make things easier on all of you, etc, etc. Are you going to contribute to them for leveling/improving themselves? Most likely you wont. That's why it's fair for people to roll for shards. If you don't think it's fair, then you need to state your conditions up front and let the party decide if they agree with your rules/preferences.
Personally, I couldn't care less who rolls for what. I only roll on things that are direct upgrades for me. I usually don't even mine in instances if I'm a miner, or pick flowers if I'm an alchemist, etc. For the record, I personally think anyone this concerned with loot/loot rules is only in it for themselves anyway and I generally don't care to group with people like this. We all like loot and things, but some of us don't make a big deal out of things and earn stuff the old fashioned way - we run things until we get our drops (or mats).
Happy Killing
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Post by
darkreyn
When enchanters stop selling the shards for 100g then perhaps I will not expect you to DE for me, but considering I need the mats to enchant my gear - I don't see why you shouldn't DE items for me if I can't use them. If you want that to stop, then fix the in game economy....
I might just stop making food and water and buffing because it costs me too many reagants and I don't want to be part of the community that Blizzard have said many times they are trying to create.
All in all, you need to think about whether you want to be playing a game that requires social interaction and community involvement...maybe this isn't the game for you if you don't want to spend 3 seconds DEing an item for someone else in a run.
flame on
I
Post by
Felrass
My 2 Cents: I truthfully don't care that much nowadays. Back in BC I need the mats especially the blue shards and so I was happy to roll but as I got a private enchanter (a good friend of mine) I don't really care that much and I got to just pass on item for DE or pass my shard roll, and as I am in a small guild and happen to be an officer the 10 people that play together started to pass the unneeded blues to our enchanter that is immensely happy as well. Back in BC allowing players to roll for the shards worked fine in my opinion but also cause problems when people started being too greedy, as it happens with everything that can yeild gold. I have witnessed people claiming they are enchanters to need on items and say they are just 1 skill-ups from being able to disenchant the item just to get their hands on something more to vendor stuff or to get the epic and skip the shard roll if they are enchanters with the required skill.
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Post by
MrFredII
Ok Kaldazarr...
All I can say is that I disagree with you....I have done all the professions, except herbs, and I would not mind if a group member asked me to roll for an ore I just mined, which he helped me get to, in an instance.
I'm also curious how many times you or have seen a group, find a locked chest in an instance, ask the rogue (or engineer or blacksmith or whoever else can open chests) to open the chest, then expect to roll on whats inside...b/c i know this happens almost every instance I run.
Im going to state again...the rogue (or whoever else) used his skill to make an item that was of no value become an item of value...the same thing all the other professions do with ore/herbs/skins.
The loot in the chest is automatically subject the the loot setting for the group. If you are on group loot with the level set to uncommon then the game will require a need/greed/pass for any green or better item in the chest. The groups expectation is not part of this equation.
In essence your example emphasizes the difference between gathered items and dropped items. That said I have no objection to shariing herbs I gather in instances with the party.
Post by
mofomisfit
Here's my take on it: I don't expect anything from instancing other than a solid effort at getting through everything. I expect that everyone will roll "greed" on BOP blues, unless that item happens to be an upgrade for a player, in which case I expect that player to roll "need". However, if an enchanter announces they will roll "need" on a BOP blue in order to DE, I absolutely expect to be given an opportunity to roll on the shard.
So if you're an enchanter who doesn't want to have to roll against the group, just roll "greed" on any item you want to DE. If you win the roll the item's legitimately yours, do whatever you want with it. But if you "need" and DE without giving everyone an opportunity to roll, that's just ninjaing, really, because you're stealing the opportunity for everyone else to get the item. And if you "need" roll against a player who actually does need the item for an upgrade, you're out of my group (or I'm out of yours, whatever).
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208493
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Post by
raistlin212
If there's an enchanter in the group and nobody Needs the item we do it by having everyone do a /roll.
The high roll can offer the enchanter a 3g-ish "tip" to roll Need on the item, shard it, and hand over the shard.
Assuming the enchanter isn't a loot ninja then that would work pretty well I think...assuming the enchanter isn't a ninja might be a big stretch though.
Theory behind this is: I spent a lot of time and money being a high enough level enchanter to be able to DE that lvl 80 purple. If I'm not in the group that item is worth less than 10g to a vendor. If I'm in the group that shard is worth 50g on the AH. My being able to do this service creates money, which I deserve a small part of.
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