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[3.3] Intro to Death Knight Tanking
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Post by
Talamare
Heres something to add to your guide
Why 5% from blade barrier and 5% from frost presence isnt 10% reduction
Reductions are calculated by multiplying
1- (1- reductionA) * (1- reductionB) etc
so with both you get
0.95 * 0.95 = 9.75% less damage
I think lynri once asked me about 2% reduction + 3% + 5% how its less then 5% + 5%
0.98 * 0.97 * 0.95 = 9.69% less damage
Also the reduction if youre a frosty
0.98 * 0.95 * 0.95 = 11.55% less damage
Hell you can even add cooldowns
0.95 * 0.95 * 0.6 (40% ibf) = 45.85% less damage
Hell you can add armor to this too
0.35 (65% reduction) * 0.95 * 0.95 = 68.41% less damage
and if youre frost
0.35 (65% reduction) * 0.95 * 0.95 * 0.98 = 69.04% less damage
Armor and Cooldowns
0.6 * 0.95 * 0.95 * 0.35 = 81.04% less damage
Armor and Cooldowns and frost
0.6 * 0.95 * 0.95 * 0.35 * 0.98 = 81.42% less damage
Post by
Nystali
This is really just a quasi update for the frost tanks out there to consider when deciding on their builds:
So just this weekend I decided I wanted to try a few new things. I've been giving Scent of Blood a good hard look for a while and I finally decided to go with it. Previously I took Epidemic instead of Scent of Blood for my frill talent. I also replaced my UBA glyph with the frost strike glyph.
14/52/5
The reason for the change was that I was a little unsatisfied with my runic power generation. I would quite often use up my runes, hit a frost strike or two and rune strike, and then I would still have an extra second or two of just staring at the boss/group. This was even worse when starting a pull at 0 runic power and only getting one FS or RS in and then having to wait the few seconds before continuing. I could have used a Emp Rune Weapon but I like to save that for emergency situations in case I need to throw down a DnD to try and save the group.
In the case of the glyph, its sad to say but I very rarely use UBA, and for trash, its fine enough as is.
Since the change I've done a few heroics and Naxx 10. I find scent of blood (simply 2/3 is fine) to almost always be up provided me tons of extra runic power. Cheaper frost strikes are insanely nice and help to fill in the gaps of my rotations. If I'm pulling rapidly, its almost impossible to run low on runic power, and I really like that.
The only caveat is that I've noticed a few times that I've let the diseases lapse on bosses a few times just because I'm accustomed to the extra few seconds from epidemic. Hopefully I can tighten up my rotations a bit to stop this from happening. Even so, I think my threat has jumped up a bit. It wasn't as big a jump as after I dropped the Imp Icy Talons line for Killing machine, but I think it was still a net gain.
In looking at my glyphs, its kind of amusing to see no defensive ones, but I think our cooldowns are powerful enough already and the glyphs just done seem all that mandatory. If they change IBF back to requiring 0 runic power, I'd pick that up in a second though. Aside from easily being able to start a pull (most vulnerable time as a tank I think) with IBF up easily, it was just way too damn cool to sit around town and pop it for the cool frost swirl effect.
Post by
382054
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Post by
Nystali
Because of the changes to blood boil and HB glyph, my aoe pulls have gotten very very simple by just repeating:
HB->BB->BB->Oblit->FS
Sometimes I might start off this but for the most part I don't use DnD:
DnD->HB->BB
For Single Targets I do still use PS in my rotation on the first go, after that though it depends on whether I get a Rime proc or not when deciding to use PS again.
IT->PS->BS->Oblit->BS->FS
Oblit->Oblit->Oblit->FS (repeat first if Rime hasn't proc'd)
Oblit->BS->Oblit->BS->FS (If Rime)
My problem comes in when I had Epidemic I would often be able to get a third part of a rotation in without having to refresh diseases so I find myself habitually trying to go that extra round with my new build, letting the diseases run out, getting a few unmodified attacks in. However, with Rime and the HB glyph, sometimes my extra long diseases weren't put to use which is another reason why I finally decided on giving scent of blood a try.
Post by
382054
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Post by
334662
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Post by
Nystali
Simply because I do not include BT in my rotations. Its on my action bars, but its just not something I've ever taught myself to use. I'm more accustomed to starting off a fight with IT and it is just habit to follow up an IT with a PS for me.
I'm actually much better at just using HB for a disease renewal in the middle of a fight so at the end of a boss fight I could very possibly end up with only 1 PS used in that very full pulling rotation.
Post by
324508
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Post by
Nystali
I had a similar question in game from a friend recently, although I think it may have been a druid asking. I am a big fan of trinkets that have at least one or several always in play procs/stat boosts/etc and so I lean heavily towards your two older trinkets.
The armor on the Defender's code is nice and gets added onto by frost presence so it made even better, but beyond that its just the on-use dodge bonus. But its still 1.3k armor. I'd keep all three around to trade in depending on the fights.
If one was to get replaced, I'd replace the essence of gossamer for the extra cooldown to use on fights like Patchwerk where it would benefit having 2 trinkets cooldowns on top of all our class cooldowns to weave throughout the fight.
For heroic grinding or raid trash clearing, I'd keep the Gossamer in though just because the shield would have more effect and the stamina helps a little more overall.
Edit: Hehe, I waited until I replied to read what Lynri posted on the original threat. We're pretty much in agreement and even referenced the same fight.
Post by
324508
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Post by
334662
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Post by
Nystali
I'm assuming that trinkets still count as "armor" in that. I think its referring to abilities like Imp Lay on Hands from pallies and Mark of the Wild (do higher levels of the spell still add armor?). I actually haven't ever had an armor increasing ring/neck/trinket so I don't know from personal experience. Maybe Stefau can do a quick item swap to let us know for sure?
Post by
Eleazer
Nystali, I find your information very helpful on most accounts, but your rotation even on single targets mystifies me. Why would you ever use PS or IT, HB hits harder and applies the same amount of rune generation and FF. If you are worried about FF running off, and for me it does from time to time as well as my runic power generation can sometimes be quite low especially at the start of a fight.
HB/OB/BB/BB/RS for multiple mobs
HB/OB/BS/BS/FS or RS depending on need
OB/OB/OB/FS until the sun comes down lol
Rinse and repeat
I could not possibly see adding PS into my cycle it would kill my runic power generation and still an OB which is by far a better use for your runes than PS. It seems that you are starting off your cycle as a Blood or unholy tank would. The benefit of being a Frost tank is HB spam on multi targets and the fact that it minimizes alot of your tanking swings allowing you to free up time for proccing on snap buttons.
Post by
Nystali
Like I said just a few posts ago, its just because accustomed over the time I've played my DK while leveling to pulling with a IT and then impulsively hitting PS. Before the HB glyph, I'd then have to obviously reapply with IT and again impulsively I'd follow it PS. They are 2 and 3 on my action bars and its just muscle memory.
Again, in my reply to Lynri, its now much more likely during a boss fight where I'll only have one IT and PS cast which is just my pulling rotation just because its habitual in my mind that's my pulling rotation. I'm gradually getting accustomed to pulling with HB since that's now the starter of my group. Eventually I might overcome my habits and only use HB.
As for the guide, I don't assume which glyphs people have so I go to a very generic, very simple, very basic rotation for people to start with.
Post by
378676
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Post by
334662
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
378676
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
334662
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
378676
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Nystali
This poses a pretty interesting question to me. What is the difference between an OT and a MT?
In my own personal definition, an OT is really someone who is fully tank specced (I don't believe in specific OT specs) and geared, but they may be less geared or less suited for a certain boss fight than the designated MT. In my raids, the MT is really the person who pulls with the most authority. By that I mean they put up any marks fast, pull quickly, and just in general keep up a good pace. For boss fights, I tend to juggle who MTs and OTs sometimes based on class and sometimes based on whether they could use some experience in that specific role on that specific boss.
On most boss fights, the OT has a secondary role: to do as much damage and produce as much threat as they can without surpassing the MTs. The first part of that is a niche rather easily filled by DKs seeing as we are rather DPS centric. The second part can pose some issues because of that fact though. In some instances because of gear differences, its near impossible for the OT to pass the MT. In others, like in my groups, where the MT and OT are rather equally geared and interchangeable, the OT might have to adjust their rotations to remain under the MTs threat level.
This is what I wanted to specifically bring up for all DK OTs out there. If you reach this point on say Patchwerk, it very important that you adjust your rotations. Because of the mechanics of Patchwerk, it can help if you put your lesser geared tank as the MT only because Hateful Strikes can tend to be the heavier hitter. For a DK put into this situation that specifically means, you only use your blood runes for a while when you catch up to the MT. This minimizes the threat you are producing by gimping your rotation to only two attacks, but at the same time it keeps Blade Barrier up at all times so you maintain your mitigation while taking Hateful Strikes.
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