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[3.3] Intro to Death Knight Tanking
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Post by
250072
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1785
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250072
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Post by
Achloryn
Blood Tanking
Group Pull Rotation
D&D
->
IT
->
PS
->
Pest
After this starter pull you could probably do one or two Single Target rotations and then perform another Group Pull rotation if needed. Groups are probably not a Blood tank's strong point. If a self-heal is needed within the Group Pull starter rotation, replace the
Pestilence
with
Rune Tap
.
in my experience tanking as a blood DK in instances, this is generally a good group pull rotation. However, i've found that if you're in frost presence, you can follow this up with a rotation such as IT->PS->Pest->BB... if you keep throwing pestilence and blood boil on larger groups (especially if you have the glyph of pestilence) than you don't need to wait 30s for D&D to cool down and have a decent rotation again.
For situations like this, i've found it useful to throw 3 points into virulence from the unholy tree, that way you have room for a death strike in your rotation. it may seem complex, but when you find a rhythm, it may look something like this.
Opening group pull rotation
D&D->IT->PS->Pest
follow up rotation:
BB->IT->PS->Pest (or DS if needed)
now, if you did a DS at the end of the last rotation, simply start off the next one with Pestilence, and just start from there. if you get to a 3rd rotation like this before some of these mobs are going down, chances are your group's not putting out enough DPS. I tend to notice that in 5-mans with most competent groups, after you even think about doing a 3rd pestilence, theres not enough mobs left to use it on.. you should be able to hold aggro on two mobs no problem without AOEing any. your frost presence is huge for stuff like that unless you've got a DPS who doesn't know how to press "F" lol.
i will admit, i didn't read every post in this thread, and someone along the way may have come across something better than what i have.. like i said though it works for me.. it's all about being comfortable with your rotation.
Post by
Gynsu666
Great guide thanks for all you folks time in helping the DK players advance! Well those who choose to listen.
Alright where to start, I would like some critique on my build and now that I am 80 am wondering if it will cut the mustard threatwise for heroics and possibly raids. Some folks have looked at my build and balked due to what I percieve is possibly a lack of knowledge on their part...I hope.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=j0EbkI0coZ0xZfghI00kgcR0ckz
Now for some background on my choices. I started this spec pre planned to give me as many tricks as possible while lvling so some of the choices while not great for tanking were very helpful at lvling/pvp'ing my way up. I took the standard 5/5/5 and built on it. Now I wanted to go into the unholy tree for bone shield but my mind kept going back to the powerhouse 3 point blood talent "Veteran 3rd War" and "Bladed Armor" had been on my mind also though tbh I did not know if the bonus was calculated on your base armor or on the modified ac you gain from frost presence. In any case with toughness also it just seemed worth it. I tied in Rune Tap, Scent of Blood and Death Rune Mastery. That combined with Reaping and all my runes are death pretty much the whole fight and my added parry is up all the time. I also felt that the bone shield/ fort combo gave me far more mitigation uptime then any other combo I have tried and if I space them right and use my rune tap ability during down time it just makes the healers job a bit less frantic, that and a party heal every 30 seconds mana free isn't bad. I save the Mark of Blood for fubar/late boss fight and rage/berserking etc just as a quasi mitigation technique.
Now my main concern aside from what you folks may point out is that my threat generation may be a bit too low. I have taken almost all the added damage for AE tanking out of holy and if I fine tune a bit more could prolly squeeze a few more into wandering or ebon plague. Someone while making fun of my build mentioned that I was not crit immune (because of my hyrbrid spec?) even at Defense Cap but I thought regardless of build at 540 defense anyone qualified. Is there any truth to this?
I have tanked almost all the blue instances but have yet to try heroics, my only problem so far holding aggro was in Occulus the other night but I feel that the mage and lock in group were trying so hard to compete with me and each other for recount stats that they weren't assisting nor paying much attention to their own threat.
I use bone shield, The group heal Rune Tap and the Cower effect for Death and decay which is working great in blue instances.
Main Roation: D&D > PS > IT > BS > DS> I work in Pes/BB after BS depending on Ae or Single. I Rune Strike whenever it is up and DC when runic power is closer to max. I try to save DG for the dumbass in group who never seems to assist or insists on trying to solo an add or if I have gone through a silence/stun recently. I start out with D&D anytime I don't actually need to pull otherwise I use DG or IT for range pull. Would also like to note that I don't really use SS much at all and wondering if that is hurting me or could I just drop it in favor of more points in WP or EPB. Same with Mark of Blood i only use it in boss fights.
Sorry for the lengthy post but wanted as much info in the psot as possible so peeps could get a feel for the build.
Gankenstein
Post by
124740
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Post by
Astygia
36/35/0 has been my tanking AND dps build for a while. Done quite a few instances and no complaints so far from anyone in any groups. This build not only is great for effective tanking AND dpsing (yes, both) in all circumstances but guarantees immense personal damage output from the tank, as well as increased survivability for you and your group.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=jciMqc0csfMzZGxxzhgzMhR
It looks dubious but it works wonders. Of course in any chaotic instance you're only as good as your healer but this build has given me amazing results. The secret is in the hidden benefits you get from this build (Bladed Armor > Armor buffs from frost talents/presence) as well as your rotation, not panicking in using your abilities too quickly. Also helps for your group to follow kill orders in tough situations.
Here's the rundown on your basic group pull (always in frost presence obviously, unless you aren't the tank)
Icy Touch > Blood Strike > Pestilence > Howling Blast > Blood Boil
This grabs aggro and keeps it just fine, so long as your DPS doesn't focus on the wrong target. Obliterate ASAP after this to give your party the attack power increase. Blood tap and Deathchill/Howling Blast if needed, or throw D&D if needed, Death Grip if a single gets loose, but it rarely happens so long as nobody's doing anything crazy and you're watching your targets. IBF/AMS if needed. In a good DPS group your primary target will probably be down by the time everything's off CD, at this point it's your judgement as to how many of the mobs are remaining should you rinse and repeat the above process or focus DPS on what's left. However, oftentimes as the tank focusdpsing with more than a single left could end up in a loss of control of a mob or two, and you with no runes left to quickly regain aggro, that makes healers/dps dead (read: angry) so personally I suggest you keep AoE aggro just to be safe, no matter how silly you feel renewing the group disease effect on just a small handful.
For single/boss pulls, same thing more or less, only forget Pestilence/Blood Boil/Howling Blast and instead Obliterate for the party AP increase, then Rune Strike with liberal Death Strikes to keep your health/blade barrier up. Again remember your IBF/AMS, also Rune Taps/Vampiric Blood. .
Also important not to forget your osh*t buttons: Rune Tap/Vampiric Blood, empower rune weapon, blood tap, Rune Tap, army of the dead, raise your ghoul just to Death Pact it for health, did I mention Rune tap?
Also don't forget your Mark of Blood, it turns you into a healing machine for your party if the enemy is using a not-very-strong AoE, or at least mitigates damage quite well.
At the time of writing this though, I'm considering letting go of the 3/3 bloodworms due to their nasty habit of breaking CC and attacking anything they smell when we're not ready for it. Haven't had >too< much trouble from this yet and their added survivability makes me hesitate to lose them, but play around with it if you're not comfy with the worms, a good healer more than makes them unnecessary. They're really just a little extra regen.
Regarding glyphs, allocate as needed. I tend to lean towards that which increases my own personal damage and healing (vampiric, obliterate) but I know making my rune tap hit the whole party would always be welcome, balance those as you see fit, it really doesn't matter all that much with this build.
If you're DPSing...use your judgement, be in blood and don't outthreat your tank. Even in blood it's very easy to do, I've begun several instances as DPS and by the last boss I was the tank, not because the tank was bad or because I'm so good (neither), it's the nature of the build.
Only downside to this build is that it's crap for pvp. But dubious as it may seem to look at, with a half-decent team, and assuming you don't do anything silly like neglect the priest or DPS's need to recharge (easy to do if you don't think about it as DKs have very little downtime) it's god in an instance.
Edits: spelling/stuff I forgot to mention
Post by
felknight
Great guide thanks for all you folks time in helping the DK players advance! Well those who choose to listen.
Alright where to start, I would like some critique on my build and now that I am 80 am wondering if it will cut the mustard threatwise for heroics and possibly raids. Some folks have looked at my build and balked due to what I percieve is possibly a lack of knowledge on their part...I hope.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=j0EbkI0coZ0xZfghI00kgcR0ckz
Having a look over your build, im sorry to say i dont thinks its a lack of knowledge on there part, the hybrid spec you are using seems to be flawed in a few ways, you lack rage of rivendare for example, you have put points into a having a constant pet and a gargoyle dps talent, missing the damage/threat buff from ebon plague and i could go on with missing/obselete talents.
you need to decide whether you want to dps or whether to tank, the build you have given is a confused one, which wont give best DPS, and wont give great threat per second.
saying all this, it is going to be a moo point for unholy tanking soon due to the nerf of bone armour to 20% damage mitigation per charge.
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77493
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Post by
lokin
The only issue that i see is that the baseline for DK tanks should be 5/8/5 and not 5/5/5. Imporved Icy Touch is essential. Outside of that, great post
Post by
248766
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Post by
Celairia
Okay, so I'm currently in noobz-tank zone, and this guide has been a big help. I'm lvl 71 right now, and my current build is
here
. Now, I'm planning on putting points into Might of Morgaine in the next few levels, but I'm mainly wondering if this build looks good enough to tank, say, Nexus.
Also, what are the right occasions to use Dark Command? Presumably only when DPS or Heals is overaggroing -- I can't see why one would open a pull with it, for instance (if one is even supposed to).
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172939
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202955
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Post by
Afoxi
Here's a question. At level 80, and when i've finally achieved 540 defense, how much *unbuffed* dodge/parry/armor/hp should i be looking at?
Thanks.
EDIT: This is a broad question, so Heroics, 10-Man, and 25-Man answers could work, just state for which so i don't get confused.
Post by
201438
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Post by
Nystali
How hard is it to tank as a DK really? I mean, has anyone compared it to a druid/warrior/paladin? :)
Threat/Survivingly speaking
Personally, I think the there is a larger degree of difficulty in DK tanking than the other classes simply because of our combat system. As the fight goes on, warriors and druids are hopefully building up solid supply of rage so that it is nearly always 50-100% full allow them to use threat builders on stray mobs in a hurry should the situation arise. Paladins will use up a lot of mana to front load their threat and then sustain it, but while they are getting hit, their mana is getting returned through heals they receive and their new Divine Plea.
Contrast that with Death Knights who are nearly always on the edge with using up their resources and it might be difficult for many prospective tanks to figure out how to properly react to emergency situations. The thing we do tend to stack is our runic power and as I'm accustomed to frost tanking, I can say that frost strike is absolutely amazing in getting some emergency threat on a mob that's wandered towards the healer. Death Coil works decently as well. Unholy shouldn't have such an issue with unholy blight as their runic dump. Blood is kinda screwed waiting for enough runes for Death and Decay to come off cooldown.
Post by
Nystali
Okay, so I'm currently in noobz-tank zone, and this guide has been a big help. I'm lvl 71 right now, and my current build is
here
. Now, I'm planning on putting points into Might of Morgaine in the next few levels, but I'm mainly wondering if this build looks good enough to tank, say, Nexus.
Also, what are the right occasions to use Dark Command? Presumably only when DPS or Heals is overaggroing -- I can't see why one would open a pull with it, for instance (if one is even supposed to).
Well, it is blood. You'll have a harder time doing it before the patch than afterwards, but go for it as long as you have a good amount of stamina and defense type armor to warrant healers deciding to heal for you.
As for Dark Command, I generally save it and Death Grip for if I see a mob wandering towards the healer. Sometimes I will use DG as part of an opener (pulling a ranged into a just cast Death and Decay and waiting for the melee mobs to run into it) but for the most part its there off cooldown waiting for an emergency.
I once had a DK (blood in fact) get ready to tank VoA for a PUG say that he using DC and DG and DnD as pretty much their main ways to keep aggro during a fight. DnD makes sense but the rest of it makes me mad that we were able to brute force our way through the instance.
The thing to remember with Dark Command is that you can only use it when you're not the top aggro. When used, it puts your threat at just above the person with highest threat (enough to pull aggro). If you were in a raid on a boss where you and the other tank had to trade aggro because of a debuff (Gluth for instance in Naxx ), then Dark Command is your bread and butter.
In a perfect instance run where DPS is following the kill order you've set out and allows your minimum of aoe threat to stay tops on the secondary mobs, Dark Command will never be used.
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