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10.2.5
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10.2.6
Inherently Evil
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Post by
Tyristrasz
Human beings: all inherently evil, or just a matter of surroundings/environment/etc.?
Furthermore, does another individual's negativity drag you down, and if so, why?
Post by
346682
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Laihendi
Who's to say what's good and evil?
Post by
MyTie
Standard Environment vs Genetics thing? Tired old debate. I'll have none of it.
Post by
Tyristrasz
Not necessarily, no. In fact, the whole "good vs. evil" bit was covered in
another topic
that I'd made a couple weeks ago. This one is a bit more broad in scope, and has actually come into being from something I've noticed. I'm a realist/pessimist at heart, and more times than not, it seems like my particular attitude drags people down pretty quickly.
And no, I don't say things in a whiney/complaint type of way. My observations are actually wholly indifferent.
As a more specific example, I'd just watched WALL•E, and I was telling my friend that I thought it was a well-made movie, and the message was pretty much spot on: that human beings were slowly but surely destroying the planet through (among other things) our pollution, and that unless we stop, things will get nearly irreparable before we realize it.
His response was that nothing that's wrong with this planet was caused by human beings, and then he proceeded to jump into a religious tangent about how we were given dominion over the whole planet and blah, blah, blah.
I just think that it's ignorant at best to think that humans don't have a hand (or both) in what's currently wrong on the planet. And when I challenged him to name one thing wrong with the planet that we
didn't
cause, his only response was, and I quote: "Solar flares."
...Yes, because of course, the happenings of the sun are totally terrestrial.
Post by
TheMediator
Who's to say what's good and evil?
If we treat all other humans as an end and not a means to an end, then any action that negatively impacts another human can be called "wrong".
Another way we can look at a situation is look at what has the most overall utility, or happiness for everyone, and determine what actions are "wrong" by looking at whether they lower the overall utility of society.
Take an Ethics/Philosophy class. Yes, its good that you're learning not to trust everything told and you no longer believe the black and white set of morals that your parents taught you, but that doesn't mean that certain actions are "just" because you believe they're right. There are plenty of sets of ethical codes that set down in a logical way what can be considered right and wrong. Taken to an extreme they fall apart, but anything taken to an extreme usually runs into issues.
Yes, Reductio ad Hitlerum incoming, but here goes - Hitler didn't think he was "evil"... are you really going to justify his actions because he believed he was right?
Post by
Laihendi
Laihendi does not believe what Hitler did was right. It goes against Laihendi's morals. But who's to say his morals are right?
And no Laihendi is not advocating genocide and Nazism.
Post by
ASHelmy
We are neither inherently Good nor bad, we are what we make ourselves into ( and what we are made into). We have a choice, that is what makes us different from angels.
Post by
Skyfire
We are neither inherently Good nor bad, we are what we make ourselves into ( and what we are made into). We have a choice, that is what makes us different from angels.
Lucifer had a choice.
Post by
Laihendi
But Zues didn't choose to be a womanizer everyone has their flaws.
Post by
345586
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ASHelmy
We are neither inherently Good nor bad, we are what we make ourselves into ( and what we are made into). We have a choice, that is what makes us different from angels.
Lucifer had a choice.
Your point being? The devil was never an angel.
Post by
Laihendi
Not according to your religion maybe.
Post by
266586
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
TheMediator
We are neither inherently Good nor bad, we are what we make ourselves into ( and what we are made into). We have a choice, that is what makes us different from angels.
Lucifer had a choice.
Your point being? The devil was never an angel.
Yes, Lucifer was an angel
He
committed the sin of pride, and he thought that he was more powerful than God. He led a battle in heaven against God, and he lost. God banished him to Hell as a result.
ZOMG you capitalized he in reference to Lucifer, you worship the devil!
Post by
266586
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ASHelmy
No, according to the Qu'ran, he was not an angel.
Post by
Skyfire
No, according to the Qu'ran, he was not an angel.
And according to the other two major books, he was. So the point is still made; if you wish to counter the example another way, feel free. Saying that in your book he wasn't is simply a cop-out.
Post by
266586
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
TheMediator
Not necessarily, no. In fact, the whole "good vs. evil" bit was covered in
another topic
that I'd made a couple weeks ago. This one is a bit more broad in scope, and has actually come into being from something I've noticed. I'm a realist/pessimist at heart, and more times than not, it seems like my particular attitude drags people down pretty quickly.
And no, I don't say things in a whiney/complaint type of way. My observations are actually wholly indifferent.
As a more specific example, I'd just watched WALL•E, and I was telling my friend that I thought it was a well-made movie, and the message was pretty much spot on: that human beings were slowly but surely destroying the planet through (among other things) our pollution, and that unless we stop, things will get nearly irreparable before we realize it.
His response was that nothing that's wrong with this planet was caused by human beings, and then he proceeded to jump into a religious tangent about how we were given dominion over the whole planet and blah, blah, blah.
I just think that it's ignorant at best to think that humans don't have a hand (or both) in what's currently wrong on the planet. And when I challenged him to name one thing wrong with the planet that we
didn't
cause, his only response was, and I quote: "Solar flares."
...Yes, because of course, the happenings of the sun are totally terrestrial.
I do believe we were given dominion over the world, but I think its ignorant as well to not take responsibility for what the world has become. We are the cause for the pollotion there is no doubt about it. As of Good and Evil, I do believe there is a real right in wrong. If you look at humans through out history we have all followed a similar concept. Granted there have been eras and communities that believed that things such as cannibalism or rape and murder of a "lesser" community was the right thing to do, but it wasnt and the villages and communities that were raped and murdered thought so as well. Look at the movie Apocolypto. The Aztecs though they were doing the right thing, yet obviously the Myans disagreed. However just because an entire community does an act doesnt make it right. Never in the history of man was it considered honorable to run away from a battle or to lie to those who trusted you. There is a core guidance in our conscience that will tell anyone what is the just thing to do, wether we listen to it or not. If there was no right and wrong than how could I blame anyone for anything? I couldnt get angry at man for slaughtering my family before my eyes for there would be nothing inside me that said it was wrong. Its like blaming the Nazis for the color of their hair. Its nonsense. Humanity as whole would collapse if it were true.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkCuc34hvD4&feature=channel
Nails you right on your head.
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