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Legalizing marijuana?
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Post by
donnymurph
Panadol has side effects. Heart medication. Valium. Arthritis medication.
All of it is bad for you in some way or another. I don't see the problem with marijuana. I've never seen anyone do anything rash while stoned. It causes less social problems than alcohol IMO, apart from the fact that it's illegal and people have to sneak around to do it.
Legalize it and you can control the potency, the price, and where it is used. It won't put marijuana use THAT MUCH more in our faces anyway, as there will always be a level of social taboo around it. Alcohol is legal but you don't necessarily see drunks walking around everywhere with a longneck in their hand.
That said, personally I don't smoke marijuana. I dislike the "high" it gives me. I get anxious, depressed, self-conscious, and about 100 other bad things when I smoke pot. But heaps of my friends do it, and I don't have any problem with them doing so.
Post by
Squishalot
maybe i should swap the word "nothing" for "much"
Maybe all the regular potheads I know started off stupid and not mentally 'all there' on their own. I could be mistaken.
Alcohol is legal but you don't necessarily see drunks walking around everywhere with a longneck in their hand.
Let me invite you into the Sydney CBD at 11pm on a Friday or Saturday night...
Post by
donnymurph
maybe i should swap the word "nothing" for "much"
Maybe all the regular potheads I know started off stupid and not mentally 'all there' on their own. I could be mistaken.
Alcohol is legal but you don't necessarily see drunks walking around everywhere with a longneck in their hand.
Let me invite you into the Sydney CBD at 11pm on a Friday or Saturday night...
I am aware they exist, dude I live on the Central Coast, the Sydney CBD has nothing on us for drunken vagrancy. I'm just saying, alcohol isn't in your face 100% of the time, pot won't be either. And stoned people are generally more pleasant than drunk people (except me of course, I am a straight sweetie-pie when I'm drunk ☻)
Post by
Squishalot
Of course it won't be in your face 100% of the time. But that doesn't stop it from being any more tolerable when it is in your face.
Stoned people without any preexisting mental health issues aren't too bad. It's just a pity that there is a higher proportion of screwed up people who do seek out recreational drugs.
Post by
Squishalot
Ok, here's my theory on why it shouldn't be legalised:
If legalised, the people who are most at risk are the most likely to take it up.
Consider gambling problems. Gambling is legal, yet it's typically the poor who have a problem with gambling (and it's not because gambling makes them poor, they start off poor and become poorer).
Legalising marijuana would make it more accessible, causing a whole raft of problems. It would simply make those with mental health issues and suffering with depression hooked on it for an escape into a better place, thus reducing their ability to be a productive member of society by even more. The unemployed are more likely to stay unemployed, the poor will waste even more of their food money on it. Business productivity will drop as more people come to work stoned.
You'll never know what the kids at Maccas are putting in your burgers.
Is that cost worth the benefit of some middle-class kids getting away with the pot-smoking that they're doing already anyway?
Post by
donnymurph
You make a strong point, as usual.
On the flip-side, it severs the income of dealers, who are otherwise unproductive members of society. And if taxed (which it obviously would be), our economy would be boosted in other ways (whether it be tax cuts in other areas, increased guvmint spending or whatever).
Legalising marijuana would make it more accessible, causing a whole raft of problems. It would simply make those with mental health issues and suffering with depression hooked on it for an escape into a better place, thus reducing their ability to be a productive member of society by even more. The unemployed are more likely to stay unemployed, the poor will waste even more of their food money on it. Business productivity will drop as more people come to work stoned.
Are you saying these things don't already happen with alcohol? In some cases, marijuana would even
replace
alcohol. Am I saying that makes it excusable? No. I am saying, these problems currently exist, they always will exist, and people deserve the right to make their own decisions, good or bad. At some point in life, regardless of how much the government does or doesn't do for us, the decision to sink or swim rests with us.
Post by
Squishalot
If government went down the 'small government' path and cut back on welfare, I'd agree with you about people being allowed to sink or swim on their own choice.
The problem with that within the existing welfare and support framework is that the sinking is being subsidised by the rest of the swimming population. As a swimmer, while I respect the fact that they may want to sink, I'd prefer that the swimming pool put up a fence to protect them from themselves, rather than waste my entrance fee money on extra life guards to continually fish them out, if you get the analogy.
If sinking meant that they only hurt themselves, that's fine, more power to them. But sinking drags the rest of us down with them.
Edit: Note, I'm no supporter of going out and getting smashed with alcohol either. I don't agree with going out and getting drunk, nor do I agree with paying for their liver transplants when people screw their life over. But that's the system we've got. It's inconsistent, but eh, that's life.
Post by
donnymurph
Agreed. Somewhat.
By not providing welfare to the sinkers, things like vagrancy, homelessness et al are increased. Which brings us down in things like
this
. Which I'm sure you probably don't give a crap about, but make no mistake that MNC's certainly look at this sort of stuff when deciding to set up operations in a certain place. And I'm sure there is a subconscious understanding among tourists about the living quality of the places they are visiting. I can't imagine Haiti's tourism industry being very big, for example. Or Somalia's.
Yes, providing help for the sinkers takes away from the swimmers, that is certain. But in a way we get it back - sort of - by Australia being seen as being a great place to exist. That doesn't stop me from being pissed about my taxes paying the way for dole-bludgers though - but in the same breath, there has been times where Centrelink is the only reason I survived for a month or two (2009, GFC, working as a cold-call salesman).
Post by
Squishalot
And so, we come back around to my original point.
Given that we're providing help for the sinkers, I'd rather put that wall up and prevent them from harming themselves. If that means keeping marijuana illegal as part of that exercise, then that works for me.
Post by
702789
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
donnymurph
And so, we come back around to my original point.
Given that we're providing help for the sinkers, I'd rather put that wall up and prevent them from harming themselves. If that means keeping marijuana illegal as part of that exercise, then that works for me.
But then we bring in the double standard again. It's generally regarded as impossible to overdose on marijuana. Whereas it is most certainly possible to OD on alcohol to the point of causing your own death.
support this. like a bunch of people said, it will help the economy.
I love that your first ever post on Wowhead was in support of legalising marijuana.
As for helping the economy, well that is debatable.
and its nowhere near as bad for you as alchohol or tobaco.
Physically, no, alcohol and tobacco will cause more harm. Mentally, that depends on the person. In the majority of cases, marijuana would be worse for your mental health than alcohol.
plus, being high causes nowhere near as much harm as being drunk. while being high you atleast have SOME sence of what the hell your doing.
Again, this depends on the person. Sure I've gotten drunk and done some wierd and wonderful things. But for the most part, whether I've had 2 beers or 12, I can maintain (some) control over what I'm doing. While stoned (which as I mentioned above, I don't enjoy), I generally don't have ANY control over my own actions.
Post by
Squishalot
But then we bring in the double standard again. It's generally regarded as impossible to overdose on marijuana. Whereas it is most certainly possible to OD on alcohol to the point of causing your own death.
I believe that I've stated my opinion on that count already. Same applies with smoking (as in, cigarettes) too.
If you were going to line treatment of the two together (marijuana and alcohol), you can either legalise both, or make both illegal. I'd personally prefer to look more towards the latter rather than the former, because while I agree that being a liveable city is a good thing, I don't think that legalising marijuana would do much for our position on the list either.
Post by
Skreeran
But then we bring in the double standard again. It's generally regarded as impossible to overdose on marijuana. Whereas it is most certainly possible to OD on alcohol to the point of causing your own death.
I believe that I've stated my opinion on that count already. Same applies with smoking (as in, cigarettes) too.
If you were going to line treatment of the two together (marijuana and alcohol), you can either legalise both, or make both illegal. I'd personally prefer to look more towards the latter rather than the former, because while I agree that being a liveable city is a good thing, I don't think that legalising marijuana would do much for our position on the list either.I don't think the government should have any say in what you can and can't do to your own body so long as you don't hurt anyone.
Post by
Squishalot
I don't think the government should have any say in what you can and can't do to your own body so long as you don't hurt anyone.
Read it in context - donny and I were discussing that earlier. I fully agree with that statement, except that the existence of welfare means that you screwing up your own life means other people have to pay for you. By definition, that means that you're 'hurting' others.
You can sum up my position as follows:
1. It's ok for people to screw up their lives as long as there's no welfare system for those who do.
2. We need to have a welfare system to be an attractive, developed nation that encourages good people to migrate and/or stay.
3. Therefore, it's not ok for people to screw up their lives, because we're required to have the welfare system.
It doesn't matter how they screw up their lives, be it through gambling, drinking, smoking cigarettes / pot or attempted suicide. If we have a welfare state, we should be aiming to reduce the damage that they can do to themselves, because it costs too much to the rest of the population otherwise.
Post by
204878
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Monday
As for helping the economy, well that is debatable.
How so?
If Marijuana was legalised:
Drug crime would decline
Less money and police resources would be wasted
Less money would be spent on housing and feeding people in prison for pot-related crimes
The government could tax it
I'm going to agree here. There's a lot of gain to be had for legalizing it and then regulating/taxing it.
Post by
Zoneseek
I can't believe you Americans still put people in jail for smoking marijana...what a waste of time and resources.
Post by
Monday
I can't believe you Americans still put people in jail for smoking marijana...what a waste of time and resources.
I can't believe that several other Western nations do the same thing.
Post by
Squishalot
As for helping the economy, well that is debatable.
How so?
If Marijuana was legalised:
Drug crime would decline
Less money and police resources would be wasted
Less money would be spent on housing and feeding people in prison for pot-related crimes
The government could tax it
Greater incidence of mental health issues (i.e. more spending on health costs).
Lower productivity of workers.
More money would need to be spent on addiction / withdrawal services.
Drug crime won't seriously decline, since there is still cocaine, heroin, ecstasy, etc.
Taxation doesn't help the economy.
As a result of money problems and greater incidence of drug dependency, there will be more domestic disputes and subsequent resources wasted on mediation and litigation.
More money will be spent on welfare, as the poor latch onto it as an escape from their unhappiness, leading to job problems and subsequent unemployment.
I'd say it's very debatable.
As I said before, I would only be happy legalising it if you withdrew welfare.
Post by
204878
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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