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10.2.5
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10.2.6
What do people think of atheists?
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Post by
382830
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
TheMediator
My mistake, I assumed that you were a bible thumper.
Post by
ASHelmy
Ok, ivokk, I am gonna use an example inspired by skreeran. If for, example, there are two theories, one that says the earth is flat, and the other says the earth is round, then only one can be right, and the other must be wrong. However, maybe, for whatever reason, believing the flat earth theory can be the
right thing for you
, but that does not make it the
right theory
. Religion is exactly the same, only one can be correct, however, different religions will suit different religions.
But religion is a matter of personal choice; the earth's shape is not. I can want a cup of milk to become a cup of water, but it's staying as milk. God is not a physical being, so you cannot define him as anything: real or imaginary, human-like or beast-like. It's like trying to come up with the anatomy for a dragon: they don't really exist, so people just use their imagination based on common traits dragons have shared through the stories.
I can say dragons don't breathe fire but they have wings and you can say the opposite, neither one of us is correct because they are a creature created by the mind. Same for God, I can say God is actually a giant purple floating carrot in space that shoots laser beams at people to turn their heads' into soccer balls and I'd be just as correct as you saying God is an immortal and etherial being that defines the morality of our actions.
Have you ever seen God? Have you studied his anatomy? Have you touched him? No, I really doubt that. To you God is real, to me he is not.
Bingo, that is what islam says, that god is nothing we understand, we don't know what god is, we have no idea. We don't know what he looks like, or anything. And since one religion says the others are wrong, then they can't all be right, different religions can suit different people, but they can't all be right.
Post by
184848
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ShadowSerpent
You're not cruel by saying this, because the people who do believe in it are too stubborn to listen to stuff like that.
To me he's Santa for adults.
Post by
ASHelmy
Bingo, that is what islam says, that god is nothing we understand, we don't know what god is, we have no idea. We don't know what he looks like, or anything. And since one religion says the others are wrong, then they can't all be right, different religions can suit different people, but they can't all be right.
Well, God is just, pardon the expression, a figment of our imaginations. He's not real, there is nothing more to understand. I feel I'm being really cruel by saying this, but he's like a lie that the world has told to itself so often it became real to people. You know, sort of like world-wide generations-old pathological lying.
Wait, how can you talk with that degree of certainty?
edit: spelling
Post by
ShadowSerpent
His existence hasn't been proved yet. True, it also hasn't been disproved, but that's the same as with the Spaghetti Monster.
If something is not proved to exist then any really logical thinking human would assume that it's fairly certain it doesn't exist. Of course, any logical thinking human would also have to leave the option open that proof of his existence might still arrive.
Also, for the excuse of people having "seen god" or some crap like that, I have one word:
PSYCHOSIS
Post by
ASHelmy
His existence hasn't been proved yet. True, it also hasn't been disproved, but that's the same as with the Spaghetti Monster.
If something is not proved to exist then any really logical thinking human would assume that it's fairly certain it doesn't exist. Of course, any logical thinking human would also have to leave the option open that proof of his existence might still arrive.
Also, for the excuse of people having "seen god" or some crap like that, I have one word:
PSYCHOSIS
I am not claiming I saw god, but I just have enough historical and logical proof that he exists, I find it's the easiest explanation...
Post by
ShadowSerpent
There is absolutely no proof that he does exist. That's just plain bull$%^&. Maybe you've read some things that convinces you he exists, but that doesn't make it true.
On the other hand, even the hardest of scientific "facts" are only about 90% certain, so the chance that there actually might be a god, even if there is no proof for it, is still there.
Post by
ASHelmy
There is absolutely no proof that he does exist. That's just plain bull$%^&. Maybe you've read some things that convinces you he exists, but that doesn't make it true.
On the other hand, even the hardest of scientific "facts" are only about 90% certain, so the chance that there actually might be a god, even if there is no proof for it, is still there.
So how do you explain all the things the prophet did? How do you explain the Qu'ran (prophet was illiterate, btw)? And if d you don't know anything about the prophet, then no offence, but you can't deny anything. You can't, for example, claim that evolution is a lie and be taken seriously by the scientific community if you haven't spent years studying biology, so why can you claim that there's no god if you know nothing about Islam or the prophet?
Post by
184848
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
184848
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ShadowSerpent
There is absolutely no proof that he does exist. That's just plain bull$%^&. Maybe you've read some things that convinces you he exists, but that doesn't make it true.
On the other hand, even the hardest of scientific "facts" are only about 90% certain, so the chance that there actually might be a god, even if there is no proof for it, is still there.
So how do you explain all the things the prophet did? How do you explain the Qu'ran (prophet was illiterate, btw)? And if d you don't know anything about the prophet, then no offence, but you can't deny anything. You can't, for example, claim that evolution is a lie and be taken seriously by the scientific community if you haven't spent years studying biology, so why can you claim that there's no god if you know nothing about Islam or the prophet?
Why assume I know nothing? I'm very interested in Theology as a matter of fact, and I've read a lot about the different religions. Granted, I don't know as much about the Islam as about the others, but it's still just a story. The prophets have never been proved to have existed, other then some being rambling madmen that would've been discarded or put in a mental institution these days.
I do agree that the Qu'ran is at the least a bit more "intelligent" (not exactly what I mean but I can't think of a better word right now) then the others out there. At least real Muslims don't go around saying that they know exactly what god is etc. imo, If he does exist, how could a mere mortal mind encompass what he would be?
Post by
ASHelmy
There is absolutely no proof that he does exist. That's just plain bull$%^&. Maybe you've read some things that convinces you he exists, but that doesn't make it true.
On the other hand, even the hardest of scientific "facts" are only about 90% certain, so the chance that there actually might be a god, even if there is no proof for it, is still there.
So how do you explain all the things the prophet did? How do you explain the Qu'ran (prophet was illiterate, btw)? And if d you don't know anything about the prophet, then no offence, but you can't deny anything. You can't, for example, claim that evolution is a lie and be taken seriously by the scientific community if you haven't spent years studying biology, so why can you claim that there's no god if you know nothing about Islam or the prophet?
Why assume I know nothing? I'm very interested in Theology as a matter of fact, and I've read a lot about the different religions. Granted, I don't know as much about the Islam as about the others, but it's still just a story. The prophets have never been proved to have existed, other then some being rambling madmen that would've been discarded or put in a mental institution these days.
I do agree that the Qu'ran is at the least a bit more "intelligent" (not exactly what I mean but I can't think of a better word right now) then the others out there. At least real Muslims don't go around saying that they know exactly what god is etc. imo, If he does exist, how could a mere mortal mind encompass what he would be?
You still say that it is just a story without knowing about it, how (refer to my evolution example)? And there's a lot of proof that he existed, for one, we know where's he buried, we have some of his possessions (I think), his family line is traced, we know who are his descendants etc etc., we don't know what god is, yes. Ivokk, I am speaking about prophet muhammed, and he lived to be around 60-ish years old (and it wasn't noted as something remarkable back then). I don't speak with certainty about god, that is why I am here debating, I just don't think the probability that he doesn't exists is big enough.
Post by
184848
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ASHelmy
Ivokk, I am speaking about prophet muhammed, and he lived to be around 60-ish years old (and it wasn't noted as something remarkable back then). I don't speak with certainty about god, that is why I am here debating, I just don't think the probability that he doesn't exists is big enough.
What you're the terrain extremely unfair. I cannot tread upon Islam because I know so little of it and yet you can walk all over my beliefs because your religion says it is the only true religion.
I'm not denying the exstence of the prophet, or Jesus, or anyone, only God. I know very little of Muhammed, and I'm sure he was a great man, but I don't see how that would justiy the existence of God.
If you're so intent on convincing us that only one religion can be correct, then why can't atheism be correct? I'm fully aware it's not a religion, but it's a theistic belief--- which is what all religions are deep inside. Maybe you're debating from the wrong side of the field.
I was taking atheism into consideration when I said that only one thing can be right, I never walked over anyone's belief, I just simply stated that I think them wrong, not bad. And since muhammed is real, and we can't think of a method or reason for him to come up with all of this, therefore, what he said (that god existed) must be true. I do think there's a chance that atheism is correct, I just think that it is more likely that god exists, so I believe in Islam. So, can you think of both a method and a reason for prophet muhammed to have lied?
Post by
150866
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
184848
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ASHelmy
I was taking atheism into consideration when I said that only one thing can be right, I never walked over anyone's belief, I just simply stated that I think them wrong, not bad.
And since muhammed is real, and we can't think of a method or reason for him to come up with all of this, therefore, what he said (that god existed) must be true.
I do think there's a chance that atheism is correct, I just think that it is more likely that god exists, so I believe in Islam. So, can you think of both a method and a reason for prophet muhammed to have lied?
Huh? I don't... get it.
So... he was real... and we don't understand why he said anything... so God is real?
I'm sorry, but this just doesn't make any sense to me.
No, he told us that god is real, and since he was known to be extremely honest all his life, he couldn't have made it up. It couldn't have been greed because he never had much money (he lived in a one room house). He couldn't have been insane because everything (I talking about all the rules and things in the qu'ran) he said worked, made sense, and was never proven wrong. He could have been famous by a lot of easier ways, he risked his life a lot, and was tortured and mocked at first.
How could he have lied about being illiterate? We know immense details about his earlier life, and we know that everyone back then knew that he was illiterate (remember communities were small back then, specially Arabs).
Because of those reasons, I am forced to accept that he wasn't lying, he was right and since he said that god was real, I must believe that as well.
Post by
301440
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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