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The 18/53 raid healing build and its playstyle.
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Post by
karlusdavius
so...
This thread is all about incorrect corrections of correct incorrectness, imho... :)
This thread is about helping a sociopath get his post count up.
leads to
karlusdavius said:
Maybe you should all chill and hold off on the e-peen flex, Grab a beer and just play some WoW. Take some time out.
Because at the moment the attitude of this entire board is nothing but /flex, and its telling in everyone.
Indeed. Honestly, the Priest board is the best board I've seen as far as respect goes, but I have seen it drop lately.
Indeed. Honestly, the Priest board is the best board I've seen as far as respect goes, but I have seen it drop lately. I am personally thankful for lots of the people that have been here a long time that continue to give good advice without being condescending. Sure, some threads get heated sometimes, and perhaps now is a good time to call everyone out if we've dropped our respect for others. Still, I know that this board is full of quality PEOPLE. Let's not lose that :D
if anything
Its.
Is trying to get your post count up.
I dont find Surge of light so worthy however, I dont have mana problems (its great mana returner I agree, but if you can do without it...
I wasn't aware that SoL was a mana return mechanic. Just throughput which would actually be pretty good coupled with a shield from a holy priest.
on a spell used 161 times only
But do you know if each time he used it, it saved a DPS from dying from the next hit? because each time he did save someone (which could be 161 times) thats 3 - 4k more DPS each time he used it.
I quoted a lot there. im all quoted out. This thread is now full of haters. Granted the thread title is controversial, however i can see the up sides to his spec coupled with his play style. Enjoy the spec mate. Peace out!
Post by
Paolo
on a spell used 161 times only
But do you know if each time he used it, it saved a DPS from dying from the next hit? because each time he did save someone (which could be 161 times) thats 3 - 4k more DPS each time he used it.
Holy priests should
never
remove PW:S from their bars. But they don't need to talent or glyph it to save DPS in crisis. An untalented bubble is plenty good enough for the job. Which I think is the main argument against (at least that portion of) the proposed build. Doesn't mean that talenting Imp PW:S is bad (like gemming agility is bad), just unnecessary for the job it's being asked to do.
Post by
ignayshus
The funny thing is the main contention doesn't seem to be how I use shield (at least not anymore) but that I'm buffing its performance for that purpose.
However, like I said earlier Paolo, I calculate my overheal on shields at 11.4% which to me says that the great majority of the shields I cast on the raid are getting fully consumed.
That they are for the most part getting fully consumed tells me that they could stand to be bigger, not smaller.
Others don't agree with that assertion, with the main reason given (and I hope I'm not mischaracterizing) being they don't think it's necessary (inspite of the low overheal) and that I could add those points to flash heal (where I already have considerable overheal). I'm assuming I don't understand the logic behind that, because I have a different interpretation of what the overheal means for both those spells in the context that they're being used.
Post by
318206
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
318206
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
karlusdavius
I could even add that at least, a "wasted" shield has a 30s opportunity of becoming useful, while overheals with FHs are "wasted for good"
i never actually looked at it this way lol
Post by
318206
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ignayshus
I look at Surge of Light as primarily a regen talent.
It saves me 695 mana and it increases the chance for OOFSR tics.
It adds a bit of burst throughput, to be sure however it actually reduces your throughput the more times you chain flash heals back to back.
The reason being is that a Surge of Light proc cannot itself crit, so you lose a material amount of your sustained throughput to that.
Post by
Aldones
I have to agree w/ Oscar for the most part. Shielding usually isn't holy's job, nor is it anwhere near as effective as a disc's shield, even if you take
Improved Power Word: Shield
.
Your calculations for Holy and Disc are wrong.
The Disc coefficient is too high and Holy includes spirit guidance and spiritual healing and multipliers apply after the fact so they affect the base.
The basic equation is:
(2230 + spellpower component) * multiplier1 * multiplier2 * multiplier3... etc
So for Holy Shields in your example it's
*1.05*1.15*1.1 = 6,499
I can't see why it wouldn't also apply 12% for Test of Faith (if the target was under 50%), but I have yet to actually confirm that.
For Discipline in your example it's
* 1.05 * 1.15 * 1.04 = 7,050
= 0.085 or 8.5% larger shield for Discipline UNLESS ToF applies in which case Holy's Shield ends up 7,279 or 3% bigger than Disciplines when I would be casting it.
I know this is really getting off topic, but I can't let this just go; so I'm doing a c/p from what wowwiki has to say about PW:S.
Notes
The amount of damage absorbed by the shield is calculated after armor is taken into account. This means the shield will last longer on targets with more armor, and benefits from Inner Fire.
Counterspell effects will pierce the shield. Physical abilities like Shield Bash and Kick still cause interruption.
Environmental damage (e.g. fall damage, lava, and fatigue) is not absorbed.
Receives a 80.68% bonus from spell power (30% of +healing in Patch 2.3; 20% as of Patch 2.0.10, previously 10%)
Generates about half the threat of normal healing spells.
Cast time will not be affected by damage while Power Word: Shield is active. Daze effects are mitigated.
The shield appears to block suicide damage (from Warlock Hellfire and from Goblin Sapper Charges) , but does not affect damage from non-damaging spells that directly decrease health like Life Tap.
The shield will absorb damage from any harmful attack but does not defend against any debuff an attack may apply. For example, the shield will absorb the damage done by a Mage's Frostbolt, but the snare debuff will still be applied.
Talent Improvements
Twin Disciplines increases the amount absorbed by the shield.
Improved Power Word: Shield increases the amount of damage absorbed by the shield.
Silent Resolve reduces threat gain from the shield and decreases its chance of being dispelled.
Mental Agility reduces the mana cost of Power Word: Shield.
Focused Power increases the amount absorbed by the shield.
Reflective Shield causes partial damage absorbed by the shield to be reflected to the attacker, without increasing threat. Only works if the casting priest is the target of the shield.
Pain Suppression is an activated talent which also decreases the chance of Power Word: Shield being dispelled.
Rapture returns mana to the caster when the shield absorbs damage.
Borrowed Time increases spell haste by up to 25% on the next spell cast (with a cast time) after casting Power Word: Shield and increases spell power contribution to the amount absorbed.
Renewed Hope increases critical strike chance on targets with Weakened Soul.
Bugs
Twin Disciplines and Focused Power do not apply correctly to the amount absorbed by the shield. The bonus they give adds instead of multiplies. Thus, when fully talented, the size of the shield is multiplied by 1.09 rather than being multiplied by 1.04 and 1.05.
Glyph of Power Word: Shield does not take into account the bonus from Improved Power Word: Shield when calculating the healing amount, but gains the bonus from Focused Power twice.
Rapture does not return mana if the shielded target is a death knight.
With that said, the only part I was wrong on was it gets a base of 80.68%, not 80% of your sp. I'm well aware that holy gets 25% of spirit as sp, but the intent here is not to compare a gear to gear conversion on what the shield would do, but how much the absorption would be w/ a base of 3k sp. But yes, holy should have about 200-300 more sp in the same gear as a disc priest would, depending on thier spirit.
Post by
ignayshus
So for Holy Shields the output is:
*1.05*1.15*1.1 = 6,499
And for Disc the output is:
* 1.09 * 1.15 = 7,037
Thanks for the tip about Focused Power and Twin Disciplines not stacking.
Post by
Aldones
Once again, I never ment to do a gear to gear conversion w/ this, so the ".25(1200 spi)" isn't in my equation. That's b/c disc and holy gear differently, though I've already stated that I'm fully aware that holy will have more sp than disc, thus you can add about 150-300 more to thier shield.
Plus you seem to be adding 10% to holy, from seemingly nowhere (
Spiritual Healing
maybe?) since the only talents that increase your shield are found in the disc tree (unless I've been wrong this whole time on that). Furthermore,
BT
adds 40% of your sp to shield, not the 32.1% you appear to be giving it.
So if you have 3000 sp...
Holy
2230 + .8068(3000) * 1.05 = 4771 (4921-4971 adding in spi)
Ignayshus
2230 + .8068(3000) * 1.05 * 1.15 = 5152 (5452 w/ 1200 spi)
Disc
2230 + 1.2068(3000) * 1.09 * 1.15 = 6768
Any way you look at it, disc is still getting over 1k more absorption per shield.
Post by
ignayshus
Spiritual Healing adds to all healing, including your shields.
The coefficient for disco shields is:
80.68% of your spellpower, but you add 40% of your beginning spellpower to the equation
80.68 (3000*1.4) = 3389
The principle of multiplication allows us to simplify it:
1.13 (3000) = 3390
Your adding the 40% flat, but it's actually 40% of your spellpower contribution, which is less. You can check the Elitist Jerks website if you want confirmation on the maths.
The end result is that Holy Shields really are only a little smaller than Disco Shields (larger than disco if ToF is applied, though this is not confirmed), but they lack the resource return provided by Rapture.
Post by
razzem
The end result is that Holy Shields really are only a little smaller than Disco Shields (larger than disco if ToF is applied, though this is not confirmed), but they lack the resource return provided by Rapture.
IMO, this is what makes a Soul Warding build so powerful for Holy priests that don't have a Disc priest in the raid. AOE + lots of prevention.
Post by
245557
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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