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LOL @ WoW in China! Must read!
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Post by
156453
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Post by
Kibbles
Next thing theyll do is cover it up with 1 bit resolution like some of the censored nude scenes in 'pg-13 shows the world round
(Their reasoning is that if the chinese see that skulls look good, they'll start ardoning their mantelpieces with the goverments' (jk)
Post by
201933
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Post by
Mesoforte
You cannot force a game where women are seen without veils into that of a Muslim country, and you I'll bet you cannot force a game where the Nazis rule into the Polish government either. Now I am taking the examples to the extreme, but the amount of censorship the Chinese government puts on the internet is, in my opinion, a questionable but fair trade. Most westerners (I am using this word to describe those in the US and Europe for simplicity by the way, dont quote me on it) believe in freedom of speech, and they confuse the censorship of this game with the censorship China has put up on WoW. You see, if you look at it from a broader point of view (imagine you are one of your parents/grandparents), the game IS extremely gorey and with the introduction of Naxxramas a work of "cartoon horror". I dont believe this game would have been accepted 40 years ago, the amount of gore, falling intestines and skulls is alarming.
The problem is that no one is "forcing" WoW on China. The mere presence of the game does not necessitate force. The second problem is that life itself is full of gore. If you don't believe me, I recommend running with first responders and EMTs for a few days. That or visiting a country embroiled in civil war. This game probably wouldn't be accepted 40 years ago, however there are certain words that people could say 40 years ago that now necessitate a press conference if said by the wrong person.
Now I personally dont find this to be a problem, but you guys have to realize the line between reality and gaming is speeding into a blur. A lot of addict gamers, especially in China, have psychological issues related to gaming, suicides and murder have occurred. As a sensible government, putting together a stricter policy against gore in game is just a way of saying "we believe this is creating a negative image towards our youth". You may agree or disagree with the statement, but the censorship is there for a perfectly moral reason. (You can even argue against morals, I mean come on violence is rated +13 and sex is rated +18. A paradox I find in the world promoting negativity and death instead of embracing life and the joys of it.)
Suicides, murder and psychological issues exist outside of games unfortunately. And those issues that arise that are involved with games are not the norm. You've had maybe 10-20 shootings that are somehow involved with GTA for example, out of the thousands that played the game. Most of the issues are with the people that are playing the games, not the games themselves.
So now look at the censorship again, and realize that perhaps, just perhaps, that it is the gaming industry that is fast developing into a commercialized version of promoting numbness upon violence. Most teenagers growing up with games have absolutely no problems watching death, experiencing death, pain and gore as long as it is kept in games/movies/songs. Imagine you're own face if* you see a mutilated man on the streets, the reactions would not be the same as you would see to the same action in a game/movie/song. Most teenagers are numb to negativity inside these forms of entertainment, BUT the blurring of reality for those who are heavily addicted to gaming, as a lot of Chinese gamers are, can potentially lead to serious problems.
Most kids who play games (exempting those who have psychological issues already) would vomit if they saw a real dead body. Most paramedics vomit the first time they see/smell a dead body of any kind, regardless of the media they were exposed to.
If anything, this game doesn't present near enough to a real picture of death to the people that play it. If the players are desensitized to anything, its a false version of it.
Post by
117271
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Post by
Modibybob
As a non-Chinese living in China, I welcome you guys another perspective at this situation.
The internet boom is a phenomenon created by the western world, the Chinese has adopted in a fashion to suit its values. Just as the Muslims have veils and the many tribes of the world have spiritual beliefs, China has its own developed culture and cannot change it in order to fit the western culture.
You cannot force a game where women are seen without veils into that of a Muslim country, and you I'll bet you cannot force a game where the Nazis rule into the Polish government either. Now I am taking the examples to the extreme, but the amount of censorship the Chinese government puts on the internet is, in my opinion, a questionable but fair trade. Most westerners (I am using this word to describe those in the US and Europe for simplicity by the way, dont quote me on it) believe in freedom of speech, and they confuse the censorship of this game with the censorship China has put up on WoW. You see, if you look at it from a broader point of view (imagine you are one of your parents/grandparents), the game IS extremely gorey and with the introduction of Naxxramas a work of "cartoon horror". I dont believe this game would have been accepted 40 years ago, the amount of gore, falling intestines and skulls is alarming.
Now I personally dont find this to be a problem, but you guys have to realize the line between reality and gaming is speeding into a blur. A lot of addict gamers, especially in China, have psychological issues related to gaming, suicides and murder have occurred. As a sensible government, putting together a stricter policy against gore in game is just a way of saying "we believe this is creating a negative image towards our youth". You may agree or disagree with the statement, but the censorship is there for a perfectly moral reason. (You can even argue against morals, I mean come on violence is rated +13 and sex is rated +18. A paradox I find in the world promoting negativity and death instead of embracing life and the joys of it.)
So now look at the censorship again, and realize that perhaps, just perhaps, that it is the gaming industry that is fast developing into a commercialized version of promoting numbness upon violence. Most teenagers growing up with games have absolutely no problems watching death, experiencing death, pain and gore as long as it is kept in games/movies/songs. Imagine you're own face if* you see a mutilated man on the streets, the reactions would not be the same as you would see to the same action in a game/movie/song. Most teenagers are numb to negativity inside these forms of entertainment, BUT the blurring of reality for those who are heavily addicted to gaming, as a lot of Chinese gamers are, can potentially lead to serious problems.
Now I've voiced my opinion and hopefully altered the way you approach this issue, I love this game (the reason why I am here) and find no problems with the game at all, and I am only 16 years old. I play on an European server to avoid the many problems with WoWChina but the amount of blind racism and insults people can output (again, quoting on numbness of these issues) to the Chinese population is borderlining insulting and shows that most are uninformed about the Eastern world.
As a last note, the way they censored it with bags and chests is hilarious, although I'm sure they are remaking icons, and just wanted to put the game back up as soon as possible.
I disagree with this perspective. If there are suicides and murders going on over WoW, then there is an underlying issue here than just a videogame. Changing these small icons is not going to do a DAMN thing.
All this proves is how repressive their government is, and nothing more.
Post by
Mesoforte
I don't think voting will occur in China anytime soon... Its just one of those things you don't change. China is a one party system, just about everyone likes the CCP, something the US cannot achieve and probably never will. It makes things a lot easier in the country, and as you can see from the development in China, its outgrowing the world rapidly. If they can advance with such rapid speeds, they are probably doing something right.
Under Stalin, Russia increased its industrial production by 400%. Yep, he quadrupled Russia's industrial capacity. He also instituted multiple purges that outdid the Holocaust in body count.
But if they could advance with such rapid speed, Stalin must have been doing something right?
Post by
217067
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Post by
cosmicguen
I disagree with this perspective. If there are suicides and murders going on over WoW, then there is an underlying issue here than just a videogame. Changing these small icons is not going to do a DAMN thing.
All this proves is how repressive their government is, and nothing more.
If you'd carried on reading you'd have noted the 'refining process' that happened to the original post you quoted. Mexloh is not saying "the government thinks video games kill people so they took out the horrible bits", he is in fact saying "some of the images presented in WoW, and in the context they are shown, are taboo in China, and have been modified to suit the culture."
(Sorry if I got that wrong/missed anything - it's 4am and I should be asleep >.>)
As Mexloh (I believe it was) pointed out a little later, it's highly likely the bag icons are only placeholders while they drum up something more suitable. I would imagine this to be true myself.
No, changing a few icons in a computer game won't change the fact that someone is disturbed enough to commit murder/suicide, but since that's not what the Chinese government is trying to prevent I'd say it's a moot point.
Since I'm here I have to say this is the most entertaining thread I've read (on any forum) for quite a while. Also, I know very little about how censorship works across different governments, so I've learned a lot from this, and all of it very interesting. Excellent debate, keep it up :D
Post by
voydd
IMHO this kind of censure is not gonna help those addicted kids from falling into some kind of psychological trauma they are now. We have to be honest guys. WoW and other video games are strongly addictable. They work like a drug. Quite dangerous drug. I am in my late 20 and i can say that by lookind at myself playing it all the time:) And I dont understand why its allowed to play from 12. 18 should be absolute min!
Howgh!
Post by
kasuturo
Totally offtopic, but I can't quit feeling that WoW looks nerdier and more vicious in China. It's like you're watching to some taiwanese Mu or Ragnarok Online thing...
Post by
115147
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Post by
303016
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Post by
95537
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Post by
Mesoforte
However China has imposed a play-time lock of I think 3 or 5 hours per day on minors in MMOs. Believe it or not, MMOs is fast bringing down the Chinese youth. China is a much more competitive country educationally, game addiction has risen to unthinkable numbers in just a matter of 4 or 5 years, and the industry has much more to develop in China. You cannot think of it from the perspective of a US citizen, that is the thing I've been trying to get you to not do in my first 3 posts, but somehow everyone doesn't get the whole concept. China is a different country altogether, things work differently here.
Why don't we post some sociological studies of this group of people and see how bad it really is.
&*!@. Look, this is censored. A single word of profanity wouldn't bring apocalypse to the youth of America either, in fact I dont think there is any child above the age of 10 who does not know every single swear word in and out of the dictionary. There are just things people impose for safety reasons or moral reasons. Its not moral to cuss in front of a child in the US, I'm sure a lot of people will find that weird in other countries.
Wowhead=/=America. Though there is a social stigma attached to certain words in the country, people will still say them, and no legal action can be brought against a person if they do (unless they have made a contractual agreement with an organization not to. And some local laws I can think of in some cities, which is not the norm.)
Neither is swearing immoral to all Americans. To most it amounts to an amoral action.
And heres another point of interest I bet none of you know, here we go. The majority of WoW's population in China is over 25. And they play in internet cafes. Nothing to do with my argument, just something to note.
So are these 25+ year old players completely unable to distinguish reality from fiction? If they are the ones with the violence issues you related above, there is something seriously wrong that WoW could never hope to be the cause of.
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95537
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303016
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355744
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238445
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