This site makes extensive use of JavaScript.
Please
enable JavaScript
in your browser.
Live
PTR
Beta
Classic
Classic Theme
Thottbot Theme
DW Frost DPS - Blowing Up the Competition One Obliterate At A Time
Post Reply
Return to board index
Post by
444058
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
220291
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Eleazer
@maikuchi - You must be doing something wrong with your rotation to have single disease be more effective. The only way single disease can be more effective is on 5 man trash or while questing. Of course I don't even apply diseases usually while questing. Blood Subspec is a less gear/weapon reliant spec. However once you get into end game raiding, you should go unholy subspec as it scales so much better than Blood subspec.
Post by
362330
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
220291
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
358543
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
435363
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
55499
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
442692
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
394421
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
446641
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Zakkhar
You got some bulls&iting about hit in this.
8 percent
is the first landmark number until you reach the 8 percent special hit cap Hit Rating is the most important stat you can have. Because all of our specials are operated off of our main hands hit rating and speccing into Threat of Thassarian gives you a 100 percent hit from your offhand on specials when your Main hand hits.
First BS. Special hit cap is special hit cap. ToT doesnt have anything to do with this.
See Mutilate rogues, they hit Muti with both weapons. Their special hit cap is same as everyone else. Nothing to do with how many or how big weapons you use. Small dagger, 1h axe, 2h Mace all have same special hit cap. Dual wielded too.
17 percent
is the untalented, unbuffed hit cap for spells. Around 30-40 percent of our damage is done via spells so getting as close to the 440 cap as possible is advisable. Now in raids 12 percent is more than enough as grouped with shadow priests and boomkins will give you an extra 6 percent hit.
Bs number two. Shadow priests and boomkins buffs Do Not Stack. You get max 3%, and thats if you are lucky. (still dunno where you pulled the 12% from - rogue poison hit cap maybe? because even taking into consideration your idea about hit buffs stacking 17 minus 6 equals 11.)
8% - Melee's Special hit cap.
10% - Alliance Spell hit cap if raiding with Draenei and Boomkin or Shadowpriest - must have all 3.
11% - Horde spell hit cap if raiding with Boomkin or Shadowpriest (Misery and Fairie Fire)
14% - DK spell hit cap if specced into Virulence
17% - unbuffed and untalented Spell hit cap
21% - Melee DW white hit cap
Bs number three. You seem to have no idea how talents work (along with buffs)
DW spec assumes you are going to spec into
Nerves of Cold Steel
Also you seem not to mention fact that spell hit and melee hit are calculated differently.
1% melee hit = 32.79 rating
1% spell hit = 26.232 rating
27%
(885 rating)
Default Dual Wield White attacks hit cap (hard melee hit cap)
26%
(859 rating)
Default Dual Wield White attacks hit cap (hard melee hit cap) for Alliance (Dranei Heroic Pressence)
24%
(787 rating)
Dual Wield White attacks hit cap with
Nerves of Cold Steel
23%
(754 rating)
Dual Wield White attacks hit cap with
Nerves of Cold Steel
for Alliance raids
17%
(446 rating)
Default Spell hit cap
17%
(420 rating)
Default Spell hit cap for Alliance raids
14%
(367 rating)
Spell hit cap with Virulence
or
ShadowPriest or Boomkin
13%
(341 rating)
Spell hit cap with Virulence
or
ShadowPriest or Boomkin for Alliance raids
11%
(289 rating)
Spell hit cap with Virulence
and
ShadowPriest/Boomkin
10%
(263 rating
Spell hit cap with Virulence
and
ShadowPriest/Boomkin for Alliance
8%
(263 rating)
Default Special hit cap (soft melee hit cap)
7%
230 rating)
Default Special hit cap (soft melee hit cap) for Alliance raids
5%
(164 rating)
Special hit cap with
Nerves of Cold Steel
4%
(132 rating)
Special hit cap with
Nerves of Cold Steel
for Alliance
Taking your logic, diminishing returns for hit start for alliance DW frost Dks at 132 rating?
According to what i see here your sort of "diminishing returns" start at 289 rating for horde and 263 for alliance.
Fix this. You are brainwashing newbies. You are free to copy and paste my calculations.
Also a comment on this:
Glyph of Blood Strike - (Optional) There is a push and i can see how it could come out as the top dps glyph, but I just can't see wasting a rune to get a snare on something just to bump up a rather weak attack. This glyph only comes out on top if you cast BS every time there is a snare making it rather weak.
Every ability slowing movement speed, attack speed or (not sure about this one) casting speed is considered a snare. Frost Fever is a snare effect. This glyph is basically 20% to Blood strike always (because you wont be ever Blood striking somethng which hasnt your Frost Fever on it).
Post by
Muoumon
Frost Fever is a snare effect. This glyph is basically 20% to Blood strike always (because you wont be ever Blood striking somethng which hasnt your Frost Fever on it).
This is true ONLY if you have at least one point in
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=50043
.
Why would you spec into a PvP talent when PvEing?
Frost fever with no points in Chilblains only affects the attack speed of the opponent its not a snare effect.
MM
Post by
Fyuu
Frost Fever is a snare effect. This glyph is basically 20% to Blood strike always (because you wont be ever Blood striking somethng which hasnt your Frost Fever on it).
This is true ONLY if you have at least one point in
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=50043
.
Why would you spec into a PvP talent when PvEing?
Frost fever with no points in Chilblains only affects the attack speed of the opponent its not a snare effect.
MM
Not quite correct. Some talents and abilities are triggered by "snares" (such as
Torment the Weak
) and because bosses are usually immune to "movement-impairing effects", snares are usually placed on these monsters through the use of spells that reduce attack speed instead.
A DK's Icy Touch will, for example, trigger TtW.
Post by
Zakkhar
Frost Fever is a snare effect. This glyph is basically 20% to Blood strike always (because you wont be ever Blood striking somethng which hasnt your Frost Fever on it).
This is true ONLY if you have at least one point in
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=50043
.
Why would you spec into a PvP talent when PvEing?
Frost fever with no points in Chilblains only affects the attack speed of the opponent its not a snare effect.
MM
Not quite correct. Some talents and abilities are triggered by "snares" (such as
Torment the Weak
) and because bosses are usually immune to "movement-impairing effects", snares are usually placed on these monsters through the use of spells that reduce attack speed instead.
A DK's Icy Touch will, for example, trigger TtW.
Exactly. What i said and what he decided not to paste in that quote:
Every ability slowing movement speed, attack speed or (not sure about this one) casting speed is considered a snare.
Post by
Muoumon
OK
I stand corrected. I missed the explanation of the snare mechanics in relation to bosses.
So what is your recommended major glyph pack? Your recommended hit rating to aim for?
I am also interested in the relevant rotation and spec.
MM
Post by
156180
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
pezz
27%
(885 rating)
Default Dual Wield White attacks hit cap (hard melee hit cap)
26%
(859 rating)
Default Dual Wield White attacks hit cap (hard melee hit cap) for Alliance (Dranei Heroic Pressence)
24%
(787 rating)
Dual Wield White attacks hit cap with
Nerves of Cold Steel
23%
(754 rating)
Dual Wield White attacks hit cap with
Nerves of Cold Steel
for Alliance raids
17%
(446 rating)
Default Spell hit cap
17%
(420 rating)
Default Spell hit cap for Alliance raids
14%
(367 rating)
Spell hit cap with Virulence
or
ShadowPriest or Boomkin
13%
(341 rating)
Spell hit cap with Virulence
or
ShadowPriest or Boomkin for Alliance raids
11%
(289 rating)
Spell hit cap with Virulence
and
ShadowPriest/Boomkin
10%
(263 rating
Spell hit cap with Virulence
and
ShadowPriest/Boomkin for Alliance
8%
(263 rating)
Default Special hit cap (soft melee hit cap)
7%
230 rating)
Default Special hit cap (soft melee hit cap) for Alliance raids
5%
(164 rating)
Special hit cap with
Nerves of Cold Steel
4%
(132 rating)
Special hit cap with
Nerves of Cold Steel
for Alliance
You can't say an entire alliance raid will have the Draenai buff. You need to have one in your actual party, not just somewhere in your raid. The general advice seems to be: alliance players, don't count on always having a Draenai available. Get that 1% more hit.
Edit: And to be super pedantic, I think you spelt Draenai wrong.
Post by
Eleazer
@Pwnager - the rotation is a very simple one, but the FS at the end simply means Runic Power dump. The FS means to FS till your runes are back up again. I will edit and try to make it clear.
@Saxxon - Grimhorn/Grimhorn is a fine way to go. The Bonecrusher is a good main-hand, but I prefer dual Grimhorns until you can get the Battlestar from heroic Totc to drop (22 runs now and have yet to see it, my entire guild has been hoping for it to drop for me, and so far nothing. I have a feeling when it does drop a rejoicing in my guild will be heard round the realm).
@penamore - Congrats on choosing DWing, the rotation is much tougher to maintain than any of the other specs, but if played correctly can give equal dps.
1. Haste is not super important, but it does have a great benefit to your white damage swings as well as Necrosis and BcB. However, because we are stuck on rune cooldowns to maximize your dps it falls in importance, as benefiting your rune damage is more important than melee damage. So hit/crit/strength/arp/expertise are all more beneficial to you than haste.
2. Unholy subspec is far above Blood subspec. If you want to keep subversion check the first page and the build reflecting Subversion.
3. Sigil of Awareness and Sigil of Virulence are the two best. Awareness is better on boss fights, and Virulence on trash.
4. If you aren't responsible for the buff than congratulations you can now use pest instead of IT/PS and bonus your dps up.
Post by
Eleazer
@ Zakkhar - First off, Let's clear something up. BS is when you just start randomly making stuff up and declare it to be the truth. No where, did I make the assumption that I was the most accurate source of information. Now let's get down to your points.
1. 8 percent special hit cap - In no way, did I state that only because of Threat of thaurassian does your specials hit. I simply talked about the 8 hit cap and then stated that Threat allows all your main hand hits to count towards your offhand special hits. This doesn't change anything. Mutilate compares to Threat in what way? Mutilate is an attack that requires and hits with both weapons which is similar to SS on Enhance shamans, but has no relation to Threat at all. Our specials don't hit with both at once, but hit separately having independent crit tables and having two separate but linked damages. But thank you for clearing up something that seemed to confuse only you.
2. If you would have taken the time to read two lines down you would have noticed that I admitted my error and changed the statement to Boomkin or Shadowpriest. Apparently I forgot to clarify that everywhere. I apologize and will make that adjustment. However you were so intent on proving how much smarter you are than me, that you failed to read any further and notice that this mistake was already got and changed. Good for you for finding the one spot where I failed to edit it.
3. This post was designed for newer tanks, and not for people who care about the small difference between spell hit and melee hit. If you get to 11 percent melee hit you will be fine either way regardless of the difference in how they scale.
Your raiding scale is incorrect as your hit for alliance is 1 percent less which is incorrect unless you have a draenei in your party or are a draenei yourself. However, I understand what you are trying to say. Regardless, let me make this clear, I did not post those numbers because any normal melee dps who is specced into an addition to hit will inform you that not only is that 5 percent number ridiculously low, it's also ignorant to spec that low and expect to be taken seriously. This is not a theorycrafting thread nor was it designed to be one explaining every single facet of DK DW threads. This was meant to guide new dk's and those with basic questions down the right path. If I wanted to be specific and have a bunch of dk's running around with 162 hit, I would have stated that was the minimum required. That however would lead to a bunch of awful dps dk's running around, so I eliminated that and simply stated the 8 percent hit, which is what your goal is.
@everyone - Frost Fever is not a snare, nor is it in anyone applicable to the Blood Strike. This was stated very clearly by more knowledgeable people on elitist jerks. It is a attack speed reducer, a snare is a cast that slows down the movement speed of the incoming target. It is generally a pvp talent taken by someone, and in order for the 20 percent damage increase to be taken you would need to have either chill blains specced into or cast Chains of Ice or have another dps gimp his own dps to snare the target. This has also been proven to be very ineffective on bosses and therefore once again a very ineffective glyph compared to your other choices. Unless someone can give us some factual evidence that frost fever has been reworked to be an actual snare instead of just a simple debuff than I will gladly admit my mistake. However, I have not seen one reputable source as of yet that claims that BS Glyph is not only a waste, but does not work based on FF alone.
Post Reply
You are not logged in. Please
log in
to post a reply or
register
if you don't already have an account.
© 2021 Fanbyte
