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Patch 3.2.2 PTR Paladin Patch Notes
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Post by
222185
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Sgtpain
Why is alot of threat for a tank a bad thing and in need of being nerfed? I run with dps that can pull 7,000 TPS on a zerg and do almost the same dps. AoE pulls are pretty sick with the group too and need all the threat I can get.
We have already lost all of the additional threat from specific spells, seems silly to nerf the threat from RF. That was the trade off when blizz took all of the threat multiplyers.
Post by
160231
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Sgtpain
Alot of threat for a tank is bad if you are the one tank who has it, and every other tank is miles behind.
.
and tell me why this matters?
Post by
160231
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Sgtpain
Official response:
We don't think "high threat tanks" is a fun niche for the game. We don't mind some variation depending on the specific situation, but paladin OTs were accidentally pulling off of MTs an awful lot. That isn't a L2P issue. That's just the numbers being off and frustrating everyone.
We didn't want to nerf threat until community perception had turned around that paladins could survive while tanking hard modes.
Try out the hard Coliseum fights (once available) or the tougher ones in Ulduar and let us know how it feels.
If I am OTing, I can control whether I pull off the MT or not. Never been an issue for me. I hit my Salv or turn off RF if I need to stay below the MT.
We also have a feral tank in the guild that does a damn good job keep up with me in threat and has pulled off me in the past too. Nerf Droods I guess, right?
Usually pallies are the prefered tanks to soak up adds and let the dps go to town on AoEs. Nerfing our SP is going to really hurt raid dps and our add tanking abilities for AoE situations. Again, as I already said, the dps can already pull off me in situations like the Arena in 25 man Uld without any problems.
Post by
zoomie
If I am OTing, I can control whether I pull off the MT or not. Never been an issue for me. I hit my Salv or turn off RF if I need to stay below the MT.
We also have a feral tank in the guild that does a damn good job keep up with me in threat and has pulled off me in the past too. Nerf Droods I guess, right?
Usually pallies are the prefered tanks to soak up adds and let the dps go to town on AoEs. Nerfing our SP is going to really hurt raid dps and our add tanking abilities for AoE situations. Again, as I already said, the dps can already pull off me in situations like the Arena in 25 man Uld without any problems.
My guild usually uses DKs for adds. From what I have seen death and decay can generate more threat than concecrate, plus DKs can drop it from anywhere, and they can put diseases on one mob then hit pestilence and spread the diseases to everything within range. They don't have to be standing in a specific spot to drop dnd either.
Why exactly are pallies the prefered tanks for adds? Is it because our concecrate generates very little threat, in fact it is barely enough threat to stay above healing aggro? Or is it that we have 2 taunts so when 2 different AOE DPS pull aggro we can taunt them back with seperate cooldowns? Every post I read from you SCREAMS "TBC tankadin". If you haven't noticed, blizzard is trying to go with the 'bring the player, not the class' deal. They gave paladins massive single target threat, and they overdid it. That is why paladins generate more threat than any other class. At the same time they tried to give warriors ways to AOE tank. Paladins are no longer looked at as the best AOE tanks. They are now looked at as the best tanks, period. If you think, or your guild thinks, that paladins are only trash/add/off tanks, then you seriously need to get with the times. A paladin is better than a warrior in every day. Better threat and better damage mitigation. The only difference is the player sitting behind the keys that knows how to play it.
Reading what you said about nerfing our SP, I think it is safe to say that you have absolutely no idea how our threat mechanics work and you have no idea about what stats are for threat. I am assuming your one of the people who still looks at concecrate and thinks its a spell power ability, when in fact it scales equally with spell power and attack power. Unbuffed I have 1336 strength and 2824 stamina. I had 847 spell power from stamina, but with the change I will have 801 spell power from the strength. Is 46 spell power really that much? No, it isn't even noticeable. What other AOE attacks do we have. Hammer of the righteous which is affected by strength, and in no way affected by spell power at all. Avengers shield which again scales equally with attack power and spell power. Even seal of vengeance scales better with attack power as it does with spell power. So why exactly is a very small nerf to spell power going to hurt our AOE threat?
As for the change to righteous fury to have us generate less threat, I am all for the change. I know I can handle it and my TPS is already miles ahead of the DPS. It won't affect me much at all. But there is one huge reason I am glad they are doing this. Prot paladins are easy as hell to play, simply because blizzard overdid their single target threat. They are going to lower it a little bit to try to balance us out with other tanks. An easier way to say it is prot paladins are overpowered, and blizzard is balancing us. Hopefully small nerfs like this bridge the gap between real, skilled tanks like me, and terrible retarded tanks who think they are good simply because they play an overpowered class... Just like 90% of the death knights who were utterly terrible when WOTLK released, but thought they were good because the class was insanely overpowered. Basically what I am saying is I hope blizzard changes it so not every idiot in the world can make a prot pally and instantly be good. I miss the TBC days where prot pallys in full T6 gear and sunwell gear earned their gear using skill, not get the gear by leveling to 80 and spending 5 minutes on a forum to learn about 540 defense and a rotation.
Post by
383613
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
zoomie
I wish it also increased agility. Dodge is win.
Post by
havtor
zoomie it seems like you think you are the top tank ever
look here NO you are not these changes wil suck for me reason is that im workiing with top notch dps and other tanks so know there class realy good and can out threat me if they realy push for it.
and what they need to do is nerfing mage/warlocks threat it is the only dps class atm so can over threat me if they realy push for best dps. but then again here comes smart dps vs stupid ones.
Post by
TheJohan
I wish it also increased agility. Dodge is win.
Use kings?
Dodge>Parry>Agility for avoidance.
Post by
zoomie
If it is going to increase stamina and strength then theres no reason it shouldn't increase agility too. That way it hits all the tanking stats. Even if its only .2 or .3% dodge. It is a huge boost, especially for people who use agility gems or when you have horn of winter and gift of the wild. Plus agility gems isn't just dodge. A 10 agility/15 stam gem is worth I think .19% crit and 20 armor aside from the dodge. I don't know the exact number but a 10 agility/15 stam gem is only about .03% - .05% less dodge than a 10 dodge/15 stam, depending on where you are at with diminishing returns.
Ohh, and I am a far better tank than anyone who posts on these forums.
Post by
TheJohan
If it is going to increase stamina and strength then theres no reason it shouldn't increase agility too. That way it hits all the tanking stats. Even if its only .2 or .3% dodge. It is a huge boost, especially for people who use agility gems or when you have horn of winter and gift of the wild. Plus agility gems isn't just dodge. A 10 agility/15 stam gem is worth I think .19% crit and 20 armor aside from the dodge. I don't know the exact number but a 10 agility/15 stam gem is only about .03% - .05% less dodge than a 10 dodge/15 stam, depending on where you are at with diminishing returns.
Ohh, and I am a far better tank than anyone who posts on these forums.
maintankadin has the exact numbers for this, and point for point value, your still better off with 10 dodge vs 10 agility. From what i read, you still should gem dodge and/or parry over agility. If your DR on dodge is off the roof, gem parry.
Post by
269245
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Sgtpain
If I am OTing, I can control whether I pull off the MT or not. Never been an issue for me. I hit my Salv or turn off RF if I need to stay below the MT.
We also have a feral tank in the guild that does a damn good job keep up with me in threat and has pulled off me in the past too. Nerf Droods I guess, right?
Usually pallies are the prefered tanks to soak up adds and let the dps go to town on AoEs. Nerfing our SP is going to really hurt raid dps and our add tanking abilities for AoE situations. Again, as I already said, the dps can already pull off me in situations like the Arena in 25 man Uld without any problems.
My guild usually uses DKs for adds. From what I have seen death and decay can generate more threat than concecrate, plus DKs can drop it from anywhere, and they can put diseases on one mob then hit pestilence and spread the diseases to everything within range. They don't have to be standing in a specific spot to drop dnd either.
Why exactly are pallies the prefered tanks for adds? Is it because our concecrate generates very little threat, in fact it is barely enough threat to stay above healing aggro? Or is it that we have 2 taunts so when 2 different AOE DPS pull aggro we can taunt them back with seperate cooldowns? Every post I read from you SCREAMS "TBC tankadin".
If anyone is stuck in TBC, it's you. Have you any clue what the capabilities of a DK is? D and D has a 30 second CD and lasts 10 seconds. So there is a repeated 20 second interval that there isn't any D and D on the ground and the DK has to rely on other AoEs to hold aggro. Cons NEVER LEAVES THE GROUND.
I am not giving you my opinion, I am giving you the opinion of almost everyone in the game. Pallies are preferred for AoE add tanking in alot of cases. It's just the way people see them. Now, I agree that other tanks are fully capable of the job, but that doesn't change what most people prefer.
Post by
Persen
Anyone know the new BV on the t8 prot libram?
Edit:
New block value is 450. (Old was 272.)
Post by
Ferel
Anyone know the new BV on the t8 prot libram?
Edit:
New block value is 450. (Old was 272.)
checked it out last night, totally awesome. and people called me nuts for throwing out LoO for SS... HAH.
as for why Sanc doesn't affect agility? simple: strength gets way more. unbuffed - even with leg enchant - you barely have over 100 AGI. strength, whether unbuffed or loaded, usually leads agility by more than 1000.
there's just no need to add a 3rd stat to Sanc, especially one that doesn't benefit nearly as much as the first 2. besides, if it matters that much, chances are you'll be getting Kings from another paladin anyway.
Post by
svirve
If it is going to increase stamina and strength then theres no reason it shouldn't increase agility too. That way it hits all the tanking stats. Even if its only .2 or .3% dodge. It is a huge boost, especially for people who use agility gems or when you have horn of winter and gift of the wild. Plus agility gems isn't just dodge. A 10 agility/15 stam gem is worth I think .19% crit and 20 armor aside from the dodge.
I don't know
the exact number but a 10 agility/15 stam gem is only about .03% - .05% less dodge than a 10 dodge/15 stam, depending on where you are at with diminishing returns.
Ohh, and I am a far better tank than anyone who posts on these forums.
Since you're so pure awesome juice, you do know that the dodge gained from agi suffers from the same DR that dodge from rating does?
Just wanted to make sure based on the bolded sentence in the quote (note the underlined words).
Post by
358147
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
zoomie
If anyone is stuck in TBC, it's you. Have you any clue what the capabilities of a DK is? D and D has a 30 second CD and lasts 10 seconds. So there is a repeated 20 second interval that there isn't any D and D on the ground and the DK has to rely on other AoEs to hold aggro. Cons NEVER LEAVES THE GROUND.
I am not giving you my opinion, I am giving you the opinion of almost everyone in the game. Pallies are preferred for AoE add tanking in alot of cases. It's just the way people see them. Now, I agree that other tanks are fully capable of the job, but that doesn't change what most people prefer.
Do you know what the capabilities of a DK is? I don't think you do because all you mention is death and decay. I could be just like you and go to wowhead and search for death and decay and find that it is a 10 second ability that has a 30 second cooldown.
Or I could consider talents and realize that
Morbidity
drops the cooldown to 15 seconds, leaving only 5 seconds of downtime. Plus there is a glyph of death and decay which increases its damage by 20%, instead of the paladin glyph that increases its duration and cooldown by 2 seconds, screwing up a tanking rotation. A death knight can drop a death and decay, put diseases on a target then hit
Pestilence
and spread those diseases to every target in 10 yards (15 if glyphed). Then hit
Blood Boil
. Those abilities alone make a death knight superior than a paladin as far as AOE threat generation. All we have that is guaranteed to hit everything is concecrate which is sub par. Instead of abilities that hit everything within range, we have an ability on a 6 second cooldown that hits 3 targets (4 if your stupid and glyphed it), an ability that hits 3 targets on a 30 second cooldown, and holy shield *IF* we block.
So to quote your last paragraph, I am going to add a few things to it to make it more accurate.
I am not giving you my opinion, I am giving you the opinion of almost every brainless idiot who is completely retarded and doesn't know basic class mechanics
. Pallies are preferred for AoE add tanking in alot of cases
if the group is full of idiots, or there is no capable death knight tank
. It's just the way
retarded
people see them. Now, I agree that other tanks are fully capable of the job, but that doesn't change what most people prefer
because most people are stupid and stuck playing like they did in TBC
.
There, now it is a little bit more true to todays World of Warcraft.
For those of you wondering why I am being such a @#$%, it's because I am stuck in Korea without my laptop so I can't play wow and it %^&*es me off to no end to come on these forums and see a bunch of clueless brainless idiots who can play, and do it all wrong. At least I killed Algalon before I came here.
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