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Varian tried, or at least threatened, to kill a child. Is he consumed with revenge?
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Post by
166613
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
taurenmoo812
Sadly, I do have to agree that Varian could be a much more effective leader than he is.
An effective leader would be strengthening ties with his fellow Alliance leaders, while attempting to weaken the ties between the Horde races. Nothing in Varian's background should prohibit him from sending envoys to the Tauren ("are you guys REALLY happy about some of your allies and what they've been doing? Maybe you should use some of your influence to bring the Horde back to nature...") and the Blood Elves ("Look, I know you were badly treated when the Scourge hit, and I'd like to apologize for that. We humans owe our survival to your generosity in teaching us arcane magicks, and I want to let you know we haven't fogotten. What could we do to make up for our past errors, and help you out against the undead?"), just for starters.
Still, in war, doing nothing is usually worse than anything else. And I doubt Blizzard will let their leaders function on realpolitik anytime soon.
The tauren have been loyal to Thrall's horde and won't back down from it because it was Thrall that ensured there survival after they were nearly killed off, same said for the darkspears.
The blood elves were betrayed by the alliance when they failed to come to there aid, nevermind it was the elves that added the alliance in the first war against the orignal horde.
And plus, if anyones cleaver enough no see what a ^&*!@#bag Garrosh is, then its not a far cry to say the same about Varian.
Don't kid yourself, either roll horde and play tauren like the rest of us, or prepared to get stomped by our massive hooves!
So if a black person killed my parents I'm justified in hating black people? He needs to understand that they're not just "beasts" or "savages" or "dogs" or "pigs" as he loves to call them. They are people, just as he is. Garrosh needs to learn this lesson as well.
Skreeran, your probably the best poster on this whole war debate, since you seem to be able to see from both ends of the scale and where the real problems lie. I take my hat off to you.
Post by
Skreeran
Skreeran, your probably the best poster on this whole war debate, since you seem to be able to see from both ends of the scale and where the real problems lie. I take my hat off to you.Thank you very much. :) I do my best.
Post by
166613
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Post by
229054
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Post by
Skreeran
Did Varian kill Me'dan, or just make a (admittedly rash and wrong) statement that he would (or could)?
If he did, then he is indeed consumed by revenge, just as Arthas was, and is a lost cause.
If he did not, then, other statements aside, he isn't so far gone as to be completely lost in anger and revenge. So, did he or didn't he? Is Varian killing innocents, or just making wild statements? And who hasn't said things in anger that they later regretted?Well, he hasn't exactly shown any signs that he didn't mean what he said.
As far as 'the tauren would never leave the Horde' and 'blood elves will never forgive the Alliance'; well, if no one approaches them, that most certainly is the case. It may well be true; but if no one tries, you'll never know.I agree. Although I also agree that the Tauren would never leave the Horde as long as Thrall is the leader, and the Blood Elves are not exactly going to run back into the arms of the Alliance. They weren't even on great terms in the Second war when they were in the Alliance, and only joined out of debt to the Arathi bloodline.
If a single black person killed your parents, no, your hate would not be justified. If black people had killed your parents, killed many of your friends, ravaged your country, enslaved you (admittedly with help from your own side) for years and forced you to fight for your life for their amusement, then I submit you might just have some reason on your side. Obviously, in the 'grey' world of Warcraft, neither side can be completely 'right'. Varian is not the best king the Alliance could have; but right now, he's the only one we have.You really think so? I think that's a huge generalization. What about the orc children? What's he plan to do about them? What about the adults like Thrall that were too young to participate in the first and second wars? The New Horde is an entirely different organization, for the most part, especially if you count the whole deal with the demon blood. Also, Varian was hardly enslaved for years. It was a few months at best...
In fact, looking at the comics again... He was captured, trained and immediately went to Dire Maul before returning to Thunder Bluff, where he "escaped."
And again, y'know, hate-fueled genocide is wrong.
Post by
166613
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Post by
taurenmoo812
You really think so? I think that's a huge generalization. What about the orc children? What's he plan to do about them? What about the adults like Thrall that were too young to participate in the first and second wars? The New Horde is an entirely different organization, for the most part, especially if you count the whole deal with the demon blood. Also, Varian was hardly enslaved for years. It was a few months at best...
In fact, looking at the comics again... He was captured, trained and immediately went to Dire Maul before returning to Thunder Bluff, where he "escaped."
And again, y'know, hate-fueled genocide is wrong.
Again you raise a perect point. Despite the games timeline, Wrynn there was only a gladiator for a short period of time, compared to someone like Thrall, who had only known imprisonment all his young life.
Varian Wrynn fans keep wanting to see the horde as the same savage monsters that came through the dark portal. But that was around 30 years ago in the lores timeline, and those orcs that first came through are now either dead, or aged veterans. Now we see orcs with familys living in the barrens and durotar, trying to create a normal life for themselves outside or war.. but the alliance like varian wrynn won't ever see this, he will only ever see one face of the horde.
And the whole thing about his parents, his mother was killed because of the riots brought by the stonemasons his father betrayed, and his father killed by a half orc/half draenei rogue.
I often wonder if Varian Wrynn isn't someone who sat and watched lord of the rings, and ended up concluding that all orcs must be evil and serve sauron.
Post by
Adamsm
His wife was killed in the riots, and he didn't betray the mason's, Prestor(Onyxia) and the Council of Nobles played fast and loose with the money and they started the riots.
Post by
283679
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Post by
Skreeran
That's a review of the art. Not to sound snide, but what does that have to do with the actual argument?
Post by
Dralas
I need to jump back into this thread, and also:
That's a review of the art. Not to sound snide, but what does that have to do with the actual argument?
Post by
283679
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Post by
184848
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Skreeran
He is certainly a child despite the fact that he's almost as old as Thrall.
He's a quarter Draenei, and has even more visible Draenei features than his mother. Wouldn't it make sense that he ages in a similar way?
Besides, Varian himself said that he hadn't killed any children up to that point, but he'd happily make an exception for Garona's son. That right there not only was an admission by Varian that Med'an was a child, but also showed that it was more than just an orc child getting in his way. It was because he was Garona's child that he would make the exception. It was personal.
Post by
283679
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Skreeran
He is certainly a child despite the fact that he's almost as old as Thrall.
He's a quarter Draenei, and has even more visible Draenei features than his mother. Wouldn't it make sense that he ages in a similar way?No, he's less Dreanei than his mother. He's mature enough to be a Trisfal? - not sure if that is a conjecture on some sites or fact.But he has more Draenei features than his mother, which would indicate to me that he received more latent genes than she did. He certainly is a teenager by our standards.
Besides, Varian himself said that he hadn't killed any children up to that point, but he'd happily make an exception for Garona's son. That right there not only was an admission by Varian that Med'an was a child, but also showed that it was more than just an orc child getting in his way. It was because he was Garona's child that he would make the exception. It was personal
.
This is where I think the disagreement lies. You see Varian the crazy child killer. I believe it was a battle taunt. He was taunting a younger foe by calling him a child.
edit changed old to matureWell, I disagree. And since we cannot prove that it was a taunt or anything but what he said, I choose to understand it as meaning exactly what he said.
Post by
166613
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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