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So I guess the Alliance is going to own in Cataclysm.
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Post by
TheMarkedCard
With the rumors and some confirmations about the Horde's loss of Thrall, Cairne's death, and 3/5ths of the Horde races being banished from Orgrimmar (Trolls,Undead, Blood Elves) It looks like the Horde is being torn apart and brought back to their former. More savage roots. I can already say that the Blood Elves and the Undead will NOT take this well. Sylvannas already is considered a traitor due to the Undercity Incident, Vol'jin and his people are homeless bums to Garrosh, and well the Blood Elves just joined due to the Forsaken and from a political view Garrosh being a new player in Horde Politics is winning in a struggle for power. While Sylvannas/Vol'jin/ Lor'themar Theron individuals who already were in positions of power within the Horde literally were slapped in the face.
The Alliance on the other hand are united under one strong, firm, resolve. Many call King Varian a racist. However thats the biggest load of kodo crap I've heard. Heck we have Worgen, Elves, Gnomes, and even Blueberry Aliens! With the Garrosh leading the Horde Varian will wipe the floor with the younger warrior. He is too rash, emotional, and prideful if he does declare war. Which he will at one point to show off his 'might' Varian will end that war and decimate the Horde once and for all.
Of course....
Thrall being Thrall....May just be pulling a fast one with the odd choice of leaving Garrosh incharge.
Thoughts? :P
Post by
322383
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
taurenmoo812
Varian is not a racist
Yeah I kinda stopped reading there. Darkton anyone?
Post by
ArgentSun
Funny you say that, I was just having the same discussion with Malgayne yesterday...
I remain unconvinced. The Alliance may be struggling in some aspects, but the Horde seems to be falling apart.
Post by
HiVolt
Varian is not a racist
Yeah I kinda stopped reading there. Darkton anyone?
People are entitled to their opinions, tauren. Just because you and darkton have opposing views doesn't automatically make him a bad guy.
The OP makes some interesting points. I'll be waiting to see if the Alliance is having troubles before casting my vote.
Post by
TheMarkedCard
I do wonder whats going to happen though to the horde. My bet's on what happened before. Camps, but this time not just Orcs. Tauren, Troll, Undead, Blood Elves....That hole where Dalaran was seems like a perfect spot imo?
AND HE IS NOT A RACIST! Shesh...Only racist people see things as racist. He just hates all Horde equally with passion. Now if he went around calling Gnomes/Dwarves/Elves/etc insulting names and murdering them on sight. Sure he'd be one. But this is not Racism. It's purely "I want to kill the Horde for being backstabbing cowardly demon-powered monsters who ruined my kindom" Hate. ;P
Post by
taurenmoo812
I do wonder whats going to happen though to the horde. My bet's on what happened before. Camps, but this time not just Orcs. Tauren, Troll, Undead, Blood Elves....That hole where Dalaran was seems like a perfect spot imo?
AND HE IS NOT A RACIST! Shesh...Only racist people see things as racist. He just hates all Horde equally with passion. Now if he went around calling Gnomes/Dwarves/Elves/etc insulting names and murdering them on sight. Sure he'd be one. But this is not Racism. It's purely "I want to kill the Horde for being backstabbing cowardly demon-powered monsters who ruined my kindom" Hate. ;P
So you somehow believe that blizzard will make 6 playable races, played by thousends of players around the world, into prisoners in a concentration camp? If you do believe that you really gotta stop eating those mushrooms.
And again, your opinion is he isn't a racist (since you would feel bad believeing your leader is one) and my opinion is he is a racist, so thats squared off nicely.
Geez least I know Garrosh is a complete %^&*!@ and will ruin the hordes 'honorable savage' image well in power.
Post by
TheMarkedCard
So you somehow believe that blizzard will make 6 playable races, played by thousends of players around the world, into prisoners in a
concentration camp?
If you do believe that you really gotta stop eating those mushrooms.
Shesh...Only racist people see things as racist.
You've proved my point. :)
Post by
HiVolt
So you somehow believe that blizzard will make 6 playable races, played by thousends of players around the world, into prisoners in a
concentration camp?
If you do believe that you really gotta stop eating those mushrooms.
Shesh...Only racist people see things as racist.
You've proved my point. :)
How? Aren't you the one who suggested them in the first place? This is the pot calling the kettle black if I've ever seen it.
Post by
TheMarkedCard
So you somehow believe that blizzard will make 6 playable races, played by thousends of players around the world, into prisoners in a
concentration camp?
If you do believe that you really gotta stop eating those mushrooms.
Shesh...Only racist people see things as racist.
You've proved my point. :)
How? Aren't you the one who suggested them in the first place? This is the pot calling the kettle black if I've ever seen it.
I never used the racist-term for prison camps like Taurenmoo did. Please read the difference between a internment camp and a concentration camp before you insult me.
:(
Back to subject....
Pre-Cata: Horde 50% Alliance 50%.
Post-Cata: Horde 49% Alliance 51%
In the world of business the Alliance is holding a good hand.
Post by
xaratherus
So you somehow believe that blizzard will make 6 playable races, played by thousends of players around the world, into prisoners in a
concentration camp?
If you do believe that you really gotta stop eating those mushrooms.
Shesh...Only racist people see things as racist.
You've proved my point. :)
How? Aren't you the one who suggested them in the first place? This is the pot calling the kettle black if I've ever seen it.
He's being intentionally obtuse to try and be humorous, I think. :P
By the by:
Racism
- the prejudice that members of one race are intrinsically superior to members of other races; prejudice or discrimination based upon race
I'm pretty sure that genocidal hatred is pretty much the epitome of racism. I'm an Alliance player, and I can't stand Varian. Everyone tries to explain (or excuse) his hatred of the Horde because of his past; I say that his greatness weakness is the fact that he can't let the past go. Sometimes it takes far greater strength not to fight.
Thrall understands that; Varian does not. I hope that when Garrosh and Varian are finished wiping each others' factions across the changed face of Azeroth, and they aren't left with the combined strength of force to face Deathwing and Ragnaros, that they look at each other and go, "Well,
shee-it
, guess we bollixed that one."
Of course, at that point, Thrall and Jaina will step in and save the day...
Post by
322383
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
xaratherus
As for the moment of now, we know that Worgens, Kaldorei, Dwarves (Both of the Bronzebeard and the Wildhammer Clans) Gnomes and Draenei are allowed to live in Stormwind, and as I can remember, the King of Stormwind is someone you call... "Racist"
Yes. Because he is. He's okay with those folks because they're his allies. Just because he's okay with
some
races doesn't preclude him from racism against others.
I don't want to put it into a serious description, but Racism = I hate you because you're inferior/black/infidel/yellow/red/Irish/Scottish/chatolic/Protestant and so on. Hate is when someone hates some other guy because he or his people did something wrong. Got it? Great!
This is true - but Varian doesn't
just
hate the ones responsible for the war against his people. He sees all the people of the Horde as a threat; he wants to wipe them
all
out, and says as much during the Wrathgate follow up quests.
When you expand your hatred from an individual or small group to the entirety of that individual's race, then you've gone from hatred to racism. All racism is hatred. Not all hatred is racism.
Post by
TheMarkedCard
Quote For Life =p Dispite me enjoying typing a nice big wall of text I didn't really want to bother
'much'
with a obvious troll. This thread's suppose to be a discussion about how the Horde's losing sight and the Alliance is gathering in strength which would of course equal in a very obvious outcome.
The Horde being beaten and thrown right back into their internment camps. I smell a coup, and maybe some Blizzard mumbo jumbo of lol-lore regarding Thrall giving Garrosh control. I presonally think that Thrall is giving Garrosh control in his own little war hungering mind to let him fall. And fall hard when the time for actual thinking comes. Teach him a lesson or such
Yes. Because he is. He's okay with those folks because they're his allies. Just because he's okay with some races doesn't preclude him from racism against others.
It's not racism when he is hating the opposing faction that has been humanity's bane for years. If that would be so then you are saying that every conflict in history has been influenced by racism. You can HATE someone not just because of race silly :P
Post by
xaratherus
It's not racism when he is hating the opposing faction that has been humanity's bane for years. If that would be so then you are saying that every conflict in history has been influenced by racism. You can HATE someone not just because of race silly :P
Actually, I would bet that any major conflict you name could probably cite racism as one of the many reasons for the conflict.
When you start attributing the "crimes" of a select group to the race as a whole, your hatred has become racism.
Anyway, to try and push the topic back onto its rails: I disagree that the Alliance will come out ahead in Cataclysm. My guess is that, in the end, the Horde and the Alliance are going to fall back to fighting one another in a more focused manner - and it's going to leave them exposed to attack from the external enemies that are Deathwing and Ragnaros. It will take the actions of a few rational individuals on each side (probably Thrall and Jaina, along with others) to pull things back onto course and save the day.
Post by
Dunken
As for the moment of now, we know that Worgens, Kaldorei, Dwarves (Both of the Bronzebeard and the Wildhammer Clans) Gnomes and Draenei are allowed to live in Stormwind, and as I can remember, the King of Stormwind is someone you call... "Racist"
Stop popping in every topic where you see "Alliance" spamming your 12 years old anger. And don't try to look democratic and enlightened, you can't fool yourself. If something isn't looking good to you, explain why, or try to create some constructive wall of text. Don't just quote a part adding a outdated punchline.
Look, I'll use an example taken from real life *Puts on a pair of Teacher's glasses and a tweed jacket* Now, you see... During the world war II there was two factions, the Allies and the Axis... The Allies hated the Axis since they were a bunch of fascist scum, they slaughtered millions of people, and invaded independent countries. Nazis hated jews just because they were jews. I don't want to put it into a serious description, but Racism = I hate you because you're inferior/black/infidel/yellow/red/Irish/Scottish/chatolic/Protestant and so on. Hate is when someone hates some other guy because he or his people did something wrong. Got it? Great!
Back in topic, I hope to see some sort of reaction by the other members of the horde. I dislike them (Lorewise I always disliked all the horde factions, I don't believe in the "Ta-dah! I'm redeemed!" way Blizzard explained all the horde's races) but still I want to see what the sane leaders of the horde will say. Sylvanas suffered enough under the Scourge to allow to the brown Captain Durotar to destroy all she managed to do. Vol'jin too looks like someone capable to beat the good sense out of Garrosh.
End of the games, I feel like the Alliance's bonds will became even stronger, while the horde will face a time of suspect and decadence. How long till another Arena will be created in Durotar?
/end Rant
You forget that the allies were just as horrible as the axis, and the only reason that you and i dont think so is cause the axis lost the war and the propoganda of the allies are what we face in everyday life.
ahem 2 nuclear bombs on a dense populated and a big ecosystem is more horrible then what man have ever done in history imo :))
Post by
307114
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
HiVolt
Regardless of my thoughts of racism, wars, and by proxy the nature of good and evil, I'll forsake a rant and go into the main topic.
The truth of the matter is, we don't know if the Alliance is truly pulling together. I would say that there are just as many proponents for peace as well as war within the Alliance as there are in the Horde.
Some of you may not realize this but there are essentially two major factions within the Alliance, the Eastern and the Western Alliances. Between these two factions, there is much animosity.
With the Western Alliance(Jaina, Malfurion, Velen), we see the proponents for peace, and cooperative action with the Horde. They see the Horde for what they have become since the Orcs broke free from their demonic taint. While the Eastern Alliance(Varian, Magni, Genn) sees them as they have since the first war, and would rather see the Horde wiped from the face of Azeroth.
Due to these very different points of view, all is not well with the Alliance either.
Post by
TheMarkedCard
I still disagree. Thought they think differently. The Alliance isn't tearing eachother apart. The Orcs under Garrosh are seperating the Horde due to
'strength'
. And I have yet to see the day in my five total years of playing since WoW's birth...
Gnome being left behind to be trampled.
A Dwarf not fighting along side his comrades to death.
Humans not rallying their allies together under one banner with compassion.
A Spacegoat left stranded without home and friends . :P
Night Elves being selfish and keeping their immortality.
And even for the future Worgen to not let gnomes ride them piggieback into combat (Yes it will happen).
The Horde cannot be defended. You call Varian racist, monster, villain, war-mongerer. But in the end Garrosh is the one who is worse. Sure Varian may declare war on Orcs. But Garrosh does worse. He isolates his own allies, and Varian has NOT done so.
For the Alliance.
For King Varian.
Unless the Horde change their ways before Cataclysm and Garrosh takes a chill pill it's one HUGE leap to game over for them.
Post by
HiVolt
Opposing opinions within a coalition of peoples leads to dissent. Just because we've heard more about the problems within the Horde, doesn't mean there won't be any problems within the Alliance.
Another thing, you can't honestly think that a war between these two factions will be a clean sweep for the Alliance. There will be major losses on both sides. As a matter of fact, all the evidence we've seen so far has been of Horde victory. They're razing Astrannar, pushing into Darkshore, and turning Gilneas into a war-zone. What evidence do we have of Alliance victory on the war-front? We don't have any.
And for the record, I never said Varian was a racist, villain, or monster. I actually like that Stormwind has a strong and passionate leader, and I think that the war is necessary, despite my affinity for Thrall and the Horde.
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