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So I guess the Alliance is going to own in Cataclysm.
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Post by
240805
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
As for the trolls -- yeah, they're meaniefaces for what they've done to the Alliance, so I can understand and accept that animosity. However, they've been nothing but loyal to the Horde, and this is how they are repaid? Wut?Actually, the trolls of the Horde have every right to dislike the Alliance/Humans, they were living in relative peace on their Islands till the Alliance showed up and started attacking them, then of course the murlocs and the Sea Witches finished it.
So, yes the Alliance have a reason to hate the Amani and the Gurbashi, but they started the conflict with the Darkspears, the tribe that is allied with Thrall and his New Horde.
Post by
240805
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
Technically, we encroached onto their lands with our upper Lordaeron exploration, and later fought them off only to help out the Blood Elves...Actually.... they didn't. The islands were destroyed, the humans there wiped out by the destruction. That group was either part of Daelin Proudmoore's fleet, or a group of Lordaeron people who were escaping at the same time as the Orcs. Don't forget, Thrall and his people were the first ones off of Eastern to head to Kalimdor during the Third War, the humans with Jaina left at a later date.
While it's true that they were just High Elves back then, the Blood Elves are the direct descendants of them and are the majority of Elven population (not counting Kaldorei), and yet the trolls fight alongside them...Kael'thas and his Sin'dori, the Blood Elves, never faught against the Darkspears. Now it's possible they dislike them because they dislike all trolls, but there has been no open conflicts between the two.
Post by
229054
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Post by
240805
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
229054
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Post by
Godwynn
Actually, I would bet that any major conflict you name could probably cite racism as one of the many reasons for the conflict.
The American Civil War.
I freakin'
dare
someone to challenge me on that.
First off, I'd like to say that I have experienced some truly abominable English in this thread, as well as rather less trolling than I expected to find here.
Secondly, and to take your bait:
If we oversimplify the Civil War we can see that it is a conflict between a more Jeffersonian South (in favor of states' rights) and a Hamiltonian and Federalist North, with the Southern states trying to uphold their right to own slaves. That's what drove their economies and it was culturally part of many of those states. (This is not exactly "right" nor is it complete but it's not that important right now; saying that the Civil War was about slavery is kinda wrong)
It's definitely true that you had slave states vs. free states and while there were clearly larger 'meta-causes' slavery was a manifestation of some of those issues. Many pseudosciences of the 19th century (Physiognomy, social Darwinism, etc) held that Africans were genetically inferior to Europeans.
You're right, in a way, that racism isn't a direct cause, but to say that it's not a closely interrelated issue would be lying. Racism clearly had a lot to do with the Civil War.
Anyone who happens to actually know about this (it's been a few years since American History :P ) feel free to correct me, but I think what I've said is generally true.
I mean, not to be off-topic or anything.
Post by
469682
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Post by
Erlinn
Actually, I would bet that any major conflict you name could probably cite racism as one of the many reasons for the conflict.
The American Civil War.
I freakin'
dare
someone to challenge me on that.
'Scuse me, mon, but I be just feedin da troll.
I honestly don't know whether to be amused by this remark or to feel embarrassed for you. I feel amused because you're so adamantly sticking by such a blantantly
incorrect
remark, and I feel embarrassed for you for pretty much the same reason. Godwynn summed it up well, but as someone who's done quite a bit of research and study on the American Civil War, and in a topic that is not about the ACW at all, I'll boil it down to a few simple sentances.
The ACW was
not
about racism. Like, it wasn't even a driving factor in why the two sides involved were fighting. This is a common myth perpetuated by lazy teaching and innacurate facts. YES, slavery (which has a ton of racism behind it) was a good example of why the North and the South did not get along. But the ACW was about how the South felt the North was imposing their beliefs and ideas onto them in what was supposed to be a "free country". One of these many things was the no slavery thing. Then they fought. The end.
There, I just challenged you.
Anyway, back to important matters; I've read through this topic I find it hard to deny that things are not looking good for the Horde in Cataclysm. Especially for my beloved Trolls, mon! But Blizzard has outright stated that they want the Alliance and Horde to remain strong enemies, and I don't think they can do that with the Horde in tatters. I'm confidant the Horde will pull together.
Vol'jin for warchief mon!
Post by
taurenmoo812
And last I checked,
WoW
World of
WARCRAFT
Nothing about peace in the name of the game.
Yes. The name of the game is WARcraft; it's expected that there'd be war involved in it.
However, that doesn't excuse either side, Alliance or Hoard, from being complete and total dumbasses about the situation. Seriously. Deathwing will rip Azeroth a new one just by waking up and Ragnaros is gonna be resurrected; what about this situation says that now is a good time to start fighting each other again?
I mean, we're kinda joining forces to go kill the Lich King, but are you telling me that a living apocalypse is less important than Varian and Garrosh having their little war with each other? Weren't we specifically told that Deathwing was biding his time until nothing in Azeroth can stop him?
I think some people need to update their priority lists...
I give your post a 10/10.
Seriously, I'm with this. The 'war' concept in warcraft is always present, as both horde and alliance are caught in a 'war' on many different sides, the war of shifting sands, the war against the burning legion, the war against the lich king, and now the war against the black flight and elemental lords.
The war against horde and alliance is a scale, no side will every become true allies, but you'd have to be thick as a anvil not to see when both sides stand together, the world gets saved.
Post by
Erlinn
And last I checked,
WoW
World of
WARCRAFT
Nothing about peace in the name of the game.
Yes. The name of the game is WARcraft; it's expected that there'd be war involved in it.
However, that doesn't excuse either side, Alliance or Hoard, from being complete and total dumbasses about the situation. Seriously. Deathwing will rip Azeroth a new one just by waking up and Ragnaros is gonna be resurrected; what about this situation says that now is a good time to start fighting each other again?
I mean, we're kinda joining forces to go kill the Lich King, but are you telling me that a living apocalypse is less important than Varian and Garrosh having their little war with each other? Weren't we specifically told that Deathwing was biding his time until nothing in Azeroth can stop him?
I think some people need to update their priority lists...
I give your post a 10/10.
Seriously, I'm with this. The 'war' concept in warcraft is always present, as both horde and alliance are caught in a 'war' on many different sides, the war of shifting sands, the war against the burning legion, the war against the lich king, and now the war against the black flight and elemental lords.
The war against horde and alliance is a scale, no side will every become true allies, but you'd have to be thick as a anvil not to see when both sides stand together, the world gets saved.
Again, I'll mention that Blizzard has said they "dislike how close the Horde and the Alliance have become". In the twitter Q&A, Blizz has said that if anything, the cataclysm will drive the two sides even closer to outright war.
So don't expect to see a "screw this, let's be friends and fight together" banner held between Varian and Thrall as they skip through fields of daisys any time soon.
Post by
240805
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
469682
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
240805
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
469682
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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