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Patch 3.3 PTR Notes
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Post by
138583
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213594
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Post by
Eleazer
I am with Nystali on this recent change. I don't want to spec Blood or Unholy to tank. I dont' like the playstyle and rotation of those to classes. I want to tank 2h with Frost. I didn't roll a dk to play a shaman or a rogue. I want the 2h feel back in my favorite class. I play a DW frost DK, and it's nice, but it's not what I enjoy. I have started playing my druid more and more, which bothers me because I want to play my DK, but all the changes to my favorite spec have kind of destroyed that enjoyment for me. I rolled a DK not just to avoid leveling all over again, but because there was something cool about playing a 2h wielding monster of destruction. I found the play style of frost to be more comfortable, and fun than blood and unholy. I don't like the feel of the DW style. However, at least I still had Tanking
To find that my favorite spec continues to get nerfed even in tanking where I am being forced to tank DW or be pushed out the door, I just don't want to deal with that. I figure after this patch I may follow Lynri and Nystali out the DK door, and leave him until they fix him and continue to play my druid.
To all those who say, quit whining if you want to 2h go do Blood or Unholy, shut up and listen. I rolled a DK for a certain style, I loved that style of play. I was able to play that style effectively, and to watch that style completely change upsets me. I don't want to roll Blood (I find Blood to be beyond boring, the graphics are boring, the rotation is annoying. I despise Death Coil). I don't want to roll Unholy (If I wanted a pet, I would have rolled a hunter or lock. I don't like SS, I find Unholy Blight to be weak, and the Gargoyle always gets in my way). I like Frost, I loved 2h Frost DPS and tanking. The changes to 2h frost almost caused me to quite, but I stayed on and had some fun DWing, mainly because we finally were able to do some nice Boss DPS. I missed the huge Frost Strikes, and the fun of running around blowing things up in PVP. When they changed it I still had 2h Frost tanking, now it looks like I won't be able to do that effectively anymore.
Post by
205531
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Post by
Eleazer
It's very easy, 2h enhance was never a viable dps spec. DW Fury was a good dps spec, but required insane gearing to maintain. Mutilate requires daggers so your comparison there is both idiotic and ridiculous. 2h Frost was fine, we could have use a few changes, but in essence there was nothing wrong. They didn't make the changes because we were under or over powered, they took it away because they didn't like the way we geared or that we didn't need a second disease to stay competitve. So the force to DW is not an improvement, but made because of a bunch of whiners who wanted to dual wield, and blizz wanted to eliminate the way frost was working.
Everyone was glad to see 2h enhancement switched to DW, the only lament was I miss the pvp part of it. Truth is you can still 2h enhance pvp and crush people for fun. You can't 2h frost because of the nerf to FS and other recent nerfs. The changes to Fury were met with excitement by just about every Fury warrior I know. The changes to Frost are being lamented by every good DK out there, and every noob is running around claiming how great it is. I don't know of a reputable dk on my server or on the horde server I was on who was in any way excited about DW becoming viable for DK's.
Finally, just because your logic is so lacking on your comment. Blizzard has stated several times, they wanted every tree to be able to use 2h and be viable, and that DK tanking was not going to change from 2h that was the fun part of the tanking. They made this change for no reason that I can see that makes any sense. They said one thing and did the opposite. That should upset any rational human being.
Post by
345177
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Post by
378676
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346400
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Post by
Eleazer
Every DK out there needs to quit complaining. Period. Im DWing atm only cause the Tankards i got from brewfest. and i do decent dmg. When i get a 2hnder i like i will go Blood spec. The 4piece t-9(if i get all 4) will make me want to use diseases in that spec (blood) even tho its diseaseless anyways. Quit QQing about the dmg you used to do and find a new way to do it. I have and i have all the DKs ither thanking me for helping them get the 'Big' numbers or asking me how to get those numbers.
If you want to DPS or tank 2 hnd then do it.
This is definitely the dumbest response yet. Please learn your class before calling people out. There are no disease-less class to think there still could be is borderline stupid. Sorry for being so blunt but your entire post represents the group of people that cause people to complain about DK's. Please learn your class and read the well-written arguments against this patch before crying out.
Post by
Aris
In practice its all about proper threat.
^^THIS
Its all about threat generation. More specifically, single target threat generation. And with the way ToT currently scales, it will likely have the best single target threat generation out of any spec for DK's.
I am with Nystali on this recent change. I don't want to spec Blood or Unholy to tank. I dont' like the playstyle and rotation of those to classes. I want to tank 2h with Frost. I didn't roll a dk to play a shaman or a rogue. I want the 2h feel back in my favorite class. I play a DW frost DK, and it's nice, but it's not what I enjoy. I have started playing my druid more and more, which bothers me because I want to play my DK, but all the changes to my favorite spec have kind of destroyed that enjoyment for me. I rolled a DK not just to avoid leveling all over again, but because there was something cool about playing a 2h wielding monster of destruction. I found the play style of frost to be more comfortable, and fun than blood and unholy. I don't like the feel of the DW style. However, at least I still had Tanking
To find that my favorite spec continues to get nerfed even in tanking where I am being forced to tank DW or be pushed out the door, I just don't want to deal with that. I figure after this patch I may follow Lynri and Nystali out the DK door, and leave him until they fix him and continue to play my druid.
To all those who say, quit whining if you want to 2h go do Blood or Unholy, shut up and listen. I rolled a DK for a certain style, I loved that style of play. I was able to play that style effectively, and to watch that style completely change upsets me. I don't want to roll Blood (I find Blood to be beyond boring, the graphics are boring, the rotation is annoying. I despise Death Coil). I don't want to roll Unholy (If I wanted a pet, I would have rolled a hunter or lock. I don't like SS, I find Unholy Blight to be weak, and the Gargoyle always gets in my way). I like Frost, I loved 2h Frost DPS and tanking. The changes to 2h frost almost caused me to quite, but I stayed on and had some fun DWing, mainly because we finally were able to do some nice Boss DPS. I missed the huge Frost Strikes, and the fun of running around blowing things up in PVP. When they changed it I still had 2h Frost tanking, now it looks like I won't be able to do that effectively anymore.
I almost never agree with Eleazer or Lynri. But this summed it up for me too. I just got my resto shaman to 80 and got some decent gear. I honestly dont know how much longer i'm going to play with my DK. Maybe if my guild needs me to, but otherwise he's sitting on the backburner.
Post by
356172
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Post by
Aris
If going DW as opposed to 2 hander is enough to make you quit the class then maybe you didn't enjoy it much to begin with.
If i'm going to use a 1h'er, i might as well start playing my prot warrior again. They still have better single target threat gen than we do.
The whole appeal of the DK class has been the large 2H'ed weapons.
Its nothing like warlocks casting bolts of shadow instead of casting dot's. It would be like if they made demo the highest dps spec, and then changed it so it was a melee dps spec. You didnt roll a warlock to do melee dps, but now you have to because its the best dps spec now.
Post by
213594
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Post by
356172
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Post by
Aris
I'll just go ahead and say that I still hold by my prediction that DW will be seeing a nerf soon.
http://www.wowhead.com/?forums&topic=119959
and I called it 27 days ago.
As people have noticed, ToT is scaling too well. Not only that but Glyph of Obliterate and Sigil of Awareness are scaling too well with DW.
QFT
Offhand damage of ToT gets nerfed in 3.3.1
I assure you, the class will NOT change, it will still be the same dk you all know and love. Just ONE particular tree will be dw. ONE TREE. .
The problem isnt that one tree will be DW, the problem is they are making it the best spec for both dps and tanking. So sure you can still 2h with blood, but your going to do less dps and less threat generation than DW frost.
Post by
345177
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205531
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178943
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356172
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Post by
Eleazer
The problem is not that the changes are being made. It's that the changes were not necessary. We were already competitive, we fell behind on extended fights so we needed an improvement on our single target damage. However, not one notable frost DK really worried or complained about single target damage. The moaning and complaining that caused this change was made not by those who actually played the cast, but by those who got crushed by us in PVP or didn't like that our AOE was so much better than theirs.
This was a change made to a class that was not broken. We still had a rotation and provided a valuable raid buff. Destro Locks were Broken all they did in TBC is dot up and shadow bolt spam. They were essentially weaker versions of affliction locks. Enhance shamans were broken. You could never 2h enhance shaman pve with any sort of success it was broken. You had a few guys, but they were brought solely for the raid buff because the dps was broken. Ret Pali's were broken and were fixed without ever changing the Iconic look of the class. No tree that I can remember has ever had the complete mechanics of it changed out of the blue for no viable reason outside of a bunch of whiners in pvp.
The classes that you are comparing us to are not viable comparisons as every single one of them was broken. The only other tree I know of that was taken from a viable DPS and completely broken due to complainers was subtelty rogues. They had a very small viable spec in TBC, but were completely nerfed to oblivion where they are only viable in pvp now.
2h Frost was never broken, they nerfed both our most viable strike and the sigil related to it. By making what you claim is such a minor changed, they changed the entire way 2h frost worked. We had heavy crit and were built around criting for huge amounts as often as possible, by nerfing our best strike, they nerfed those crits by an even larger margin. That effectively killed 2h frost. It's not viable anymore even in pvp. I used to have 13k FS crits pre patch. Now with better gear I might get an 11k if I am lucky. It's shot, toast, gone.
This is the complaint made by every skilled Frost DK I have met. We don't mind DW dps as much as we mind DW tanking, because at least we could 2h somewhere, now it's toast.
@fmatt - We were already doing something no one else could do. We were tanking without a shield and not in a bear shape. The fact that now they are changing what was never a broken tree into something that is completely opposite of the Lore, playstyle, looks, and previous statements that they have made in regards to DK's and DW.
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