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How to Druid: Moonkin PvE 101 (WotLK)
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Post by
260787
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Kaitain
The guide should be labelled "Moonkin PvE guide". Almost all points made do not apply to how to play/gear/spec Moonkin in a PvP setting, and there is surprising little overlap. I'm not saying it should incorporate PvP information, but without being explicit in the title people wanting some PvP information might read the entire thing before they realised there was none :-)
You should cut the entire Talents section. It's a massive page full of tautology.
I'm not sure your information on the rotation is accurate enough to include in it's current form. Solar Eclipses do not proc faster than Lunar on account of Wrath being a substantially faster cast than Starfire. DoTs are cast for their high DPET, i.e. you cast them because they are high damage spells that you can cast while moving.
From
Elitist Jerks
:
Against a single target, refresh MF and IS whenever they drop. MF should have higher priority for refresh, but the difference is tiny. During a Wrath-heavy part of the cycle, it may be best to refresh MF last (after IS or other instants) to minimize the chance that it will drop before you cast SF again.
There's currently a slight open question about whether it's worth waiting until Eclipse ends if a DoT expires in the final few seconds Eclipse. This is hard to model and the DPS difference is very small, so consider it a matter of personal taste for the moment.
And you should hardly ever clip DoTs. If there is one piece of information a beginner needs to take away about DoT usage, it's that.
The section on Enchants should include Profession specific information. Most players have professions after all. Also, Run Speed on boots is almost always a DPS increase over Icewalker unless you are working on a progression fight where you never ever ever ever move, ever. (are there any fights like that in WotLK?)
For a beginner's guide it should include information about some basic addons to help with the rotation. Decent addons have the potential to increase a players DPS more than any other single factor, much as Blizzard might disagree (although they don't really explicitly disagree, because it's obvious and true).
I don't want to sound disparaging, because I do admire anyone who puts in the effort to write a guide like this, but you have to consider what is gained from writing a new guide. What info here is not already quite eloquently covered (and more rigourously backed up) in beginners guides like:
http://elitistjerks.com/f73/t59457-moonkin_beginner_guide_updated_3_2_a/
? If you feel that guide (and others like it) lacks clarity then perhaps a new version is justified. I personally doubt that it is.
I know that guide is over there and this one is over here, and many people might not want to post on EJ (or more likely they can't be bothered to find the existing answer to their questions there so they post a fast "pls help me" post here), but this is the web after all and there is no justifiable reason for people to not read the initial posts on those more established threads. All people here really need is the link.
Post by
340332
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Post by
393352
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
340332
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
daedly
on the enchants section, a alternative for the wrist enchant (for leather workers) is the fur lining.
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=57691
Post by
hashmel
Tier Sets and Bonuses
The 2 set tier 8 bonus (2t8) from Conqueror's Nightsong Regalia ilvl 226
think you forgot the link in the code right after the = sign
also when discussing aoe glyphs you didn't mention glyph of starfall, i'm a bear/seldom offspec boomer myself so not 100% but wouldn't casting another hurricane be superior to a typhoon for aoe?
as moonfire is a must i'd think glyphs of starfall and focus would be a better choice for aoe while also benefiting single target dps
i suppose for pure aoe grinding starfall, focus, and barskin would be a nice touch
see 1st link in sig for pve bear, contributions are encouraged
Post by
80642
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Post by
LumiyaSpellsong
Thank you for this guide, Lespaul. I'm resto but I do have balance as my secondary spec. Balance is new to me, so this guide was just what I needed. It wasn't full of heavy math (which doesn't do me any good when I just want to get a feel for what to do) and it was all laid out plainly. I think those who want more of the 'why' or the math should have a separate article for that info.
While the 'why' is important, it's not necessarily so important to a beginner. It's overwhelming. I need to get my rotations down and understand the basics first. All of the math will be really great once I have a handle on what I'm doing and I want to get down to the nitty gritty to tweak things here and there to improve.
A lot of things may also be a matter of preference and I wholeheartedly believe that there's no ONE single right way to do things in this game, especially with various playstyles to contend with. It's good that there's other opinions out there and I'm sure once I get the hang of DPS'ing with a chicken that I'll add my own flavor. I find this guide to be really useful on the basics, with good rules of thumb to get started with. It's a nice foundation. Thank you.
Post by
murakaz
Actually, Solar Eclipse is very slightly higher in dps than Lunar. I cant find the thread where this was discussed, but it is marginal. Starfall is a more efficient way of proccing the first eclipse due to its effects on MF with the Glyph. To be totally honest, with the mechanics in most fights I think it very probably doesnt make any difference which you do first.
On paper, yes, but you can't forget lag and excess haste can hinder Solar quite a bit. Lunar also benefits from Wrath proc'ing Nature's Grace early, less GCDs used on your DoTs via the Moonfire Glyph, and (more recently) the ability to go straight into Solar via WiseEclipse. The Moonfire glyph doesn't affect you proc'ing the initial Eclipse at all, and it should never take you over 10 seconds to proc Lunar Eclipse should you choose to proc it first.
As for DoTs, maximum dps can only be achieved
whilst both MF and IS are active under Eclipse
. It really is as simple as that. Maximum total damage and maximum dps are not the same thing and shouldnt be confused.
You're arguing semantics, I was referring to the (example) decision between getting another tick of IS in over one more Eclipsed Starfire... and I honestly don't think IS will tick for nearly as much, or have a chance to proc Solar for that matter.
Post by
curlymon
There are many 'pet' names for the Moonkin, some of the most frequently heard are:
Boomkin
Lazer Chicken
Crit Chicken
These are basically all centered around the Moonkins high damage abilities, and the fact that Moonkins look like giant chickens!
Other names such as Oomkin, refer to the Moonkins inability to retain mana in the days of the Burning Crusade, and are no longer relevant.
Thunder Turkey and Doomkin as well.
Readability:
Best order for this guide would be
Intro
Jargon
Talents (talent explanation, builds and glyphs should all be in 1 post)
Gearing (gear/stats, chants, Gemming should all be 1 post as well)
Rotation/Tips and Tricks
Suggested addons (could technically fall under Tips and tricks
Revsion info
You have something like 12,000 character you use and your total posting here is not even close to that you have more then enough room for expansion. Hell the original Moonkin Guide by Celd can be placed inside of a single post despite its size.
Also make some mention of addons like; Squawk & Awe, Quartz and WiseEclipse. Plus a description of how it helps.
Tier gear:
The strongest 2t8/2t9 setup is shoulders/legs from t8 and chest helm from t9. The glove slot will either go to off set or t9.
t8.5 shoulders are the most difficult to get as they require you to down Yoggy in 25 man, until you get to that point the 10 man versions are still a very strong candidate for the spot. The idea is to have 2t8/2t9 though so if your best option is straight through badges then the helm/chest t8 is better then nothing.
The 4t7 is also pretty strong in it's own right but due to the ease of getting Triumph and Conq Emblems, 2t8/2t9 is what even starting boomers should look forward to.
Jargon:
Add in an explanation of "Lunar" and "Solar" eclipse since we use those terms quite a bit around here.
Rotation:
Change step 6 to say: "Repeat from step 4 while refreshing DoTs appropriately"
Enchants
Your gear should be enchanted thus (not counting profession specific enchants)
Head:
Arcanum of Burning Mysteries
*Requires: The Kirin'Tor - Exalted
Shoulders:
Master's Inscription of the Storm
*Requires: Inscription @ 400
Greater Inscription of the Storm
*Requires: Sons of Hodir - Exalted
Lesser Inscription of the Storm
*Requires: Sons of Hodir - Honored
Back:
Lightweave Embroidery
*Requires: Tailoring @ 420
Springy Arachnoweave
*Requires: Engineering @ 380
Enchant Cloak - Greater Speed
Enchant Cloak - Speed
Chest:
Enchant Chest - Powerful Stats
Enchant Chest - Super Stats
Wrists:
Fur Lining - Spell Power
Enchant Bracers - Superior Spellpower
Enchant Bracers - Greater Spellpower
1 Handed Weapon:
Enchant Weapon - Mighty Spellpower
Enchant Weapon - Exceptional Spellpower
Enchant Weapon - Accuracy
2 Handed Weapon:
Enchant Staff - Greater Spellpower
Enchant Staff - Spellpower
Enchant Weapon - Accuracy
Feet:
Enchant Boots - Tuskarr's Vitality
*for endgame highly mobile fights
Nitro Boosts
*Requires: Engineering @ 405
Enchant Boots - Icewalker
Legs:
Brilliant Spell Thread
Sanctified Spellthread
*Requires: Tailoring @ 405
Waist:
Eternal Belt Buckle
Hands:
Hyperspeed Accelerators
*Requires: Engineering @ 400
Enchant Gloves - Exceptional Spellpower
Enchant Gloves - Precision
Blacksmiths get 2 Items that can stack with enchants for Wrists and Hands giving them 1 additional socket on each.
Wrists:
Socket Bracer
Hands:
Socket Gloves
Lots of extras to add in.
If you are below the hit or haste cap, gem any yellow sockets with
Rigid King's Amber
or
Quick King's Amber
respectively, until you have reached the cap
. If you only need 10 hit or haste to reach the cap u can use
Veiled Ametrine
or
Reckless Ametrine
respectively.
Generally, you should never gem for a socket bonus unless the bonus is atleast 8 spellpower.
You NEVER want to gem straight +haste or + crit, and you only want to straight +hit if you cannot reach hit cap with SP/Hit (veiled) gems.
And as for socket bonuses:
Yellow -
Potent Ametrine
or
Runed Cardinal Ruby
Runed Cardinal Ruby
is the best gem to place in a yellow socket
unless
the socket bonus will give you 3 SP per socket you wish to swap the ruby out for at which point you would use
Potent Ametrine
.
Blue -
Purified Dreadstone
or
Runed Cardinal Ruby
This is the tricky one of the bunch. If you have the Meta you will only want two of these. If you do not have a meta or already have 2 blues filled then gem
Runed Cardinal Ruby
in these sockets
unless
the socket bonus will be 8+ SP.
Jewel Crafters gemming
Place
Runed Dragon's Eye
's in every Red socket that gives you Spell Power bonus first. Crit bonus second. Haste bonus third.
Otherwise Follow the above gemming guidelines.
Actually, Solar Eclipse is very slightly higher in dps than Lunar. I cant find the thread where this was discussed, but it is marginal. Starfall is a more efficient way of proccing the first eclipse due to its effects on MF with the Glyph. To be totally honest, with the mechanics in most fights I think it very probably doesnt make any difference which you do first.
On paper, yes, but you can't forget lag and excess haste can hinder Solar quite a bit. Lunar also benefits from Wrath proc'ing Nature's Grace early, less GCDs used on your DoTs via the Moonfire Glyph, and (more recently) the ability to go straight into Solar via WiseEclipse. The Moonfire glyph doesn't affect you proc'ing the initial Eclipse at all, and it should never take you over 10 seconds to proc Lunar Eclipse should you choose to proc it first.
As for DoTs, maximum dps can only be achieved
whilst both MF and IS are active under Eclipse
. It really is as simple as that. Maximum total damage and maximum dps are not the same thing and shouldnt be confused.
You're arguing semantics, I was referring to the (example) decision between getting another tick of IS in over one more Eclipsed Starfire... and I honestly don't think IS will tick for nearly as much, or have a chance to proc Solar for that matter.
Adding to this...
Lunar Eclipse is much better to start with at all times:
Statistically faster to proc
Greater use made of Starfall when starting off on the boss (when above haste cap)
WiseEclipse addon allows you to move straight from Lunar into Solar rather then having a short down time. Allowing you to have a greater uptime of eclipse overall. (this is the really big point)
As for DMG vs DPS...
Overall damage is the most important stat to compare. Hands down. Comparing DPS shows the potential of your abilty/spec/rotation/fightmechanics but unless you make full use of it the entire time overall damage is the key factor.
I will take more time after I get off work to help you with some other things.
Post by
340332
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
curlymon
There should be a math based section if you want this to be a full guide but set it aside on its own and towards the ends so people do not have to read through it if they don't want to.
Post by
340332
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
curlymon
For everyone who wants to proc Lunar Eclipse first:
Have you considered the travel time of Wrath from max range into your calculations for which Eclipse is quickest to proc? If not please add this to the cast time and run the calculations again.
thx
Have you done the same for Solar Eclipse? They affect Solar alot more.
Yes the math has been done for both and Lunar first wins out due to WiseEclipse.
Edit: On a side note. With the use of WiseEclipse Addon latest theorycrafting says that 2t8/2t9 is better then 4t9.258 now. Unless you are about 5% over the SF crit soft cap.
Post by
340332
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
hashmel
There are many 'pet' names for the Moonkin, some of the most frequently heard are:
Boomkin
Lazer Chicken
Crit Chicken
These are basically all centered around the Moonkins high damage abilities, and the fact that Moonkins look like giant chickens!
Other names such as Oomkin, refer to the Moonkins inability to retain mana in the days of the Burning Crusade, and are no longer relevant.
don't forget nuclear pidgeon, radioactive KFC, or "What the hell are you supposed to be?"...personally i'm what the other night elves call a Lovekin.
unsure if it's worth mentioning but i'll throw it out there for someone better acquainted with balance to figure out the numbers,
Black Magic
is getting a makeover
* Enchant Weapon - Black Magic now cause your harmful spells to sometimes increase haste rating by 250.
Post by
340332
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
curlymon
Also while you can go to your previous posts list and copy all the links to the posts in the guide and paste them into the first post so you can have direct links. Very helpfull on the Druid FAQ.
Post by
curlymon
Starfire only has a 3% greater chance to crit then a Wrath does if you have iIS. With out it they are the same. While iIS will technically tip it over to Solar having a slightly faster proc time not all builds use iIS. In addition the swing is so small (going from 0.99% faster for Lunar to close to 0.3% faster for Solar) as to not make it better then going Lunar first due to WiseEclipse.
When you play around with WiseEclipse make sure you have a Wrath queued up after the last SF of your Lunar rotation to take full advantage of the addon.
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