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Triumph Emblem / gear question / gems
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Post by
295598
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
409657
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ascero
I would kind of agree with PassiveWoWzors. However, if you still have 2 green trinkets, you gotta get yourself a
talisman of resurgence
. 50EoT, and that will net you around 2.2k more mana as well as a nice on-use effect, which I have macroed to my Divine Hymn, of course. I recommend this first because, 1: It is a very nice longevity trinket that will really boost your mana pool, and 2: There really isn't an upgrade for it until you hit ToC25.
From there, get the two-piece set Tier 9 bonus from the gloves and pants. Conveniently, you can potentially get both the 245 level of those in VoA25, if you're lucky. If you aren't lucky, of course, then the 232 will obviously do. After that, you can get either the 245 rings (both are nice for healing priests), or the 245 shoulders from the vendor, whichever is the bigger upgrade at the time of purchase. If you still don't have a better chest by this point (hint: merlin's robe), then grab the 232 tier 9 now.
Oh and also gems. Obviously epics are the best, but I played by the rule to not put an epic gem in anything below 232, unless you are a JC/Alchemist or have super-cheap access to uncuts. My standard rules for gemming is this: Red Sockets get
+SP
, Yellow Sockets get
+SP/+Int
, and Blue Sockets get
+SP/+MP5
. Being a JC, I also (nearly) have 1 +Int and 2 +SP Dragons Eye's socketed. Now, I always follow socket bonuses, primarily because I have a crazy case of OCD. If you are not like me, and don't care, then just socket healthy amounts of both +SP and +Int (or both) in all sockets.
Also, don't take the above to-task with my armory below. I purchased the wrong purple gem cut (+SP/+Spirit) on the advice of a forum post which I later found dated back to the BC era. Since I had (have) a massive pile of Dreadstones, I cut 'em anyway and threw 'em in, since they aren't *aweful*, at least until I get the right cut. However, never *never* gem for spirit.
Post by
309579
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ascero
Well as far as pure regen goes, MP5 still provides way more I5SR regen then Meditation + Spirit. Holy Priests tend to favor spirit, however, because of the spell power boost. However, I don't think its a good idea to gem for either stat, if you don't care about socket bonuses. From what I've read, Intellect is vastly superior to either of the above, primarily because of replenishment and %mana effects like Mana Totem. After analyzing my Recount after a couple HHoR and ToC10 runs, I found about the same conclusion; Replenishment generates a ludicrous amount of mana, followed distantly by Rapture (I am a Disc priest, granted), then followed by natural I5SR and O5SR regen.
The reason I stated in the post above about not geming for spirit is basically the above. Its not so much about EITHER mp5 or spirit, so much as NEITHER. Now, if you are a newely-minted 80 and have glaring regen issues, then maybe it will make you feel better if you throw in some regen gems.
However, analyzing the numbers would show the difference is negligible: 10 spirit provides somewhere in the range of ~6-I5SR-MP5, times (as an example) 6 gems slots would provide 36-MP5. If you are casting a spell that costs 500 mana every 3 seconds (I can't remember the exact numbers, but those are close for Flash Heal. The aforementioned would definately be conservative), that averages out to somewhere near 700 mana spent per 5 seconds. If you are having *massive* regen problems, massive enough to warrent the use of expensive epic gems, you have to realise that the effect even 80MP5 would have on these numbers is miniscule.
Now, throw in a +23SP Cardinal Ruby, and you would be gaining a total of 23*6=~140SP. Your heals are now healing for an extra 130ish healing. That's awesome! Or, how about an extra +20Int via a Kings Amber? 20*15mana/1Int = 300 mana per gem! Throw one of those in every slot, and you'd be gaining well over 1k mana. Remember: more mana = more regen via replenishment and %based sources!
If you are having regen problems, maybe check out your options in Trinkets, or learn to cheat the 5SR via burst healing. Or just switch to Disc if you are just healing 5-mans right now.
Post by
387103
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ascero
Lol, I love how such a simple topic has turned into a massive theorycrafting war over the superiority of a given stat. Continue!
Now I am actually curious as to which stat IS better, so lets think about this. Below is the equation that equates spirit, intellect, and regen, taken directly from Wowwwiki.
MANA REGEN = 5 * (0.001 + sqrt(INT) * SPIRIT * 0.005575) * 0.60 (rounded up)
The OP has 1062 non-buffed INT. Lets say we are comparing two items, for example
this
and
this
. I understand one is a sword, but the iLevels are the same, so the rules of itemization very much apply. They also both have the exact same amount of crit and SP. iL232 is also a very good level to theorycraft at, because it is roughly where casual players will hit a wall.
So, lets just talk flat regen. The Mace would provide a flat 26MP5. Nothing else on the item would directly improve your MP5. The Sword, on the other hand, would provide...
MR == 5 * (.001 + sqrt(1062) * (37) * .005575) * .6 == 20.1664 MP5
Around 21 base O5SR-MP5. If I'm correct, that would mean that it would provide around 11 I5SR-MP5 (assuming you have Meditation), which is slightly more important. Without taking anything else into account, the MP5 mace is obviously superior. However, Holy Priest's have a couple of abilities that would shift the scales, namely
Holy Concentration
,
Spiritual Guidance
and
SoR
. I'm going to ignore Spiritual Guidance because SP != regen, though if it came down to a minuscule difference between MP5 and Spirit in the end, that would obviously be the deciding factor.
First of all, SoR would increase the amount of SPI on that sword to (37+(37*.05)) = 38.85, rounding up to 39. That would basically change the above equation from 21 O5SRMP5 to 21.23, rounding upto 22MP5. SoR would provide an extra point of MP5 on that sword, putting the I5SRMP5 at around 12.
Lets now assume that a character we are talking about has a crit chance of 25% holy. The OP is a little below that, but it makes for easier theorycrafting. That means that, assuming all else is constant, .125% of your spellcasts will proc the 8 second buff. If you can cast 4 spells within 8 seconds (which is definitely possible, especially with CoH), then I think a liberal %uptime on that buff is 75%. Correct me if I'm wrong there.
At 75% uptime, and with a base I5SR-MP5 of 11, then I would assume that the overall, long-term MP5 of that sword would be somewhere in the range of 19-20 (12 * 1.75).
See next post lol.
OK BRING IT HOME! The mace provides 26MP5, whereas (from what I've done above) the sword would provide ~20MP5. At this item level (232), MP5 is still a superior pure-regen stat, however tiny the difference. THAT BEING SAID! The spirit on that sword would also provide ALSO provide ~10 Spellpower, adding to throughput. As such, I will have to conclude that, from my broken theorycrafting,
SPIRIT > MP5
from iL232 and ABOVE!
tl;dr
Spirit > MP5 ; ignore my previous posts.
Post by
ascero
Crap, just noticed a glaring error in my above post.
For Spiritual Guidance, the amount of MP5 provided would actually be determined by
tMP5 = (11 base MP5) * 1 + ((.25 increase) * (.75 uptime)) == 13.0625 == 14 MP5
Above, I just took it times .75, which is obviously not correct. That'd be like saying that the buff increased your mana regen by 100% for 75% of the time, not 25% for 75% of the time.
That being said, the MP5 difference is actually substantial; the OP would actully gain almost double the amount of regen from the item with inherent MP5, assuming the intellect levels were the same. So, to keep it short, if all you care about is regen, then MP5 > Spirit until you get into ICC10/25 level gear. I don't wanna theorycraft at that level lol. However, I would still probably favor Spirit because of the SP increase, as well as the fact that I do not have mana problems.
tl;dr
Ignore part of previous post
MP5>Spirit for pure regen
Spirit>MP5 overall, IMO
Post by
295598
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ascero
Yeah, just as a followup, Hodir rep is not *nearly* as hard as it used to be. Like, not even freaking close. I believe that, if you do all 5 or 6 dailies everyday (no more then 45 minutes), you would get somewhere around 3k-4k rep. It only took me about a week before I was 999/1000. Also, don't forget you can buy commendation badges from the EoT vendor for only 1 badge; these award 500 rep if I'm not mistaken. Might actually be more then that.
And if you aren't having any major regen issues, then it would definitely be advisable to ignore the socket bonus on blue sockets and just socket one of the two gems you listed. Unless you have OCD like me.
And the two trinkets you chose are decent enough, however the Snowflake is not quite as good as it used to be after they hotfixed a 0.6s cooldown on it. This means that your CoHs and PoHs will only proc it once. If you use Renew a lot, then its a *decent* choice (it will proc off of each Renew tick), but I would still recommend getting the 50EoT vendor trinket instead. Also, the Crystal is probably a better choice for Disc, but honestly its an awesome all-around trinket; I used until I got a replacement in ToC10. Do be careful, however, after activating that proc; a single CoH or PoH will basically blow it straight down to zero bonus. I had mine macroed to Divine Hymn and just used it then.
Oh, and now I have to change my icon/avatar, since I found someone else with the same one. It confuses me lol.
Post by
Crysania
The reason Mp5 is so much better than Spirit is that spirit's effective regen can be increased through talents and buffs, by increasing your intellect, and through the five second rule (although that's not as important since 3.1). With 1066 Int, a 20 Spirit gem is worth 5.46 casting mp5 before buffs and talents, and as much as 6.89 mp5 buffed (before
Holy Conc
and
Human Spirit
). While it's still 30% less regen than a 10 Mp5 gem, you get some spellpower along with it and it will become more effective as you upgrade your gear.
Although I don't recommend gemming pure spirit and intellect when you start upgrading your gems. Use hybrid
Purified
or
Seer's
for blue sockets, and
Luminous
in others if you need more mana regen. If you don't have any mana issues, gem
Reckless
in yellow/red sockets to get your haste up and
Purified
in blue if the socket bonus is worth it (+7/+9 SP).
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