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Recount needs to die.
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Post by
dumac
Recount is fine, it is a needed tool to check how well a dpser does in a fight, then you almost wipes. U can also see how healers is handling it with it too. I can agree u do not need to link it all times though.
Gearscore is the worst who come to wow, achievement linking was bad enough. Pugging now in wow is lousy, every raid leader is a prick now.
Post by
TinyPhreak
I believe nothing a person says should be said without some thought behind it. And if something is said that is in fact wrong, I expect them to admit it.
I know. I say it's obvious what the person meant, and you say they need to make it more obvious. This is what the argument between us two is about.
So don't you go pointing fingers at me if you can't make up your mind what position you agree with.
I'm pretty clear on what position I'm agreeing with; My own.
Again, quit it with the silly and immature personal attacks.
I'll think about it since you might have a point, at least the "silly" part.
Post by
fireskeith
man you guys are going about it all wrong. with this whole gear vs skill argument.
The constant is not gear its skill. Lets show this somewhat numerically and assume we can quantify skill to a number and we can already "quantify" gear. lets make a comparison between 2 people equally geared with different skill. from 1-100 one persons skill level is say 85, the others is 45. Using a gear "score" of 100 we get.
85x100=8500 dps and the other of 45x100=4500dps.
In this situation skill mattters.
now lets say that the gear changes and the more skilled wields lesser gear.
85x50=4250 dps and 45x100=4500 dps
And in this situation gear matters.
as you can see the more skilled player is outdone by the lesser skilled player because of the gear. Anyone that says that skill not gear gives dps is quite silly and vice versa. They're directly related.
Post by
hagelini
And what in all seven hells does this have to do with GS and Recount? We're talking about PuGs here. If you join a guild, then GS ofc becomes rather pointless. But Recount will not. The point of PuGs normally is to get through something. You don't pug progression content. You pug farm content.
What you're essentially saying is (to use my analogy from before) "I know that that plenty of you disagree and think that nuclear fission is the greatest thing to come along, but what happened to working on the health care system?". It doesn't matter, at least not in the context of this discussion.
What I grasp from this is that you read one sentence of my post. Recount can be a pain, but I wasn't really knocking it. Gear Score is the real problem here and that was my real gripe. I feel it really is just a tool to allow greedy bastards the ability to form a raid that won't fail so they won't have to drop 50g on repairs or maybe take a bit longer to go through because you may not have the best geared people going into itand as I said before, gear doesn't mean skill anyway. My analogy, since you are reading so much into it, is that gear score is a pointless tool to use to form groups/raids. It is not an accurate way to determine the true ability of a person--recount is pretty good at doing that--and if you had actually read my post you would realize that was basically what I was getting at.
I also should have brought up that in the end, this is just a game. Addons like these--even recount to some extent--really take the fun out of it for a large majority of the people who really are just there to waste a few hours and play a game. If you get so frustrated pugging that you cannot handle it...join a raiding guild if you are good enough or deal with what you are handed. Yes I get it that you think pugging farm content should be easy, but you are dealing with servers with thousands of people who just got to 80, or don't raid until 2am every night. They want to get into places that people like you think should just be 'farm content', but maybe what you need to realize is that not everyone is going to be great. Not everyone cares about having the best end game gear and being number 1 on the dps list. Its a game. You need to get over the fact that not everyone can be as good as you.
Post by
234695
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
MikadoGG
Here's the actual contextual meaning of what Sinespe wrote: By itself, skill will give you damage, whereas gear will not.
That's what I'm arguing against! Why can't I argue against that?
Gear = 0
Skill = 100
Damage happens.
Gear = 100
Skill = 0
Damage doesn't happen.
I think you are very much confusing skill and having a pulse.
I'm not disagreeing with either side directly, but to say that having gear does not give damage just seems silly. If the person is dead at keyboard or afk then yes, having gear doesn't give damage.
Post by
MikadoGG
I feel it really is just a tool to allow greedy bastards the ability to form a raid that won't fail so they won't have to drop 50g on repairs or maybe take a bit longer to go through because you may not have the best geared people going into itand as I said before, gear doesn't mean skill anyway.
I also should have brought up that in the end, this is just a game. Addons like these--even recount to some extent--really take the fun out of it for a large majority of the people who really are just there to waste a few hours and play a game.
While I agree on some level, you also have to realize that people forming/joining these pugs are also there to waste a couple hours of THEIR time the way THEY want to. If they choose not to bring someone who they feel will slow their group down or cause it to fail then it is their right. Maybe when they form a group to waste some time they feel that wiping will take too long and they don't HAVE that much time to waste to begin with.
I'd say if you have a problem with gear elitism then start your own raids and take people who whisper you without checking their gear. I've seen many people with high gearscores fail in pugs, but an even greater number of people with low gearscores fail. You take an average skilled player and give them !@#$ gear their performance will be average at best. You take an average skilled player and give them high end gear their performance will tend to be higher. It's only logical.
Post by
104412
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
366971
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
TinyPhreak
Gear = 0
Skill = 100
Damage happens.
Gear = 100
Skill = 0
Damage doesn't happen.
I think you are very much confusing skill and having a pulse.
I'm not disagreeing with either side directly, but to say that having gear does not give damage just seems silly. If the person is dead at keyboard or afk then yes, having gear doesn't give damage.
Like I said before, hitting a mob is a degree of skill -- albeit hardly anything to mention, since a cabbage could probably do it if it had fingers to click the mouse with -- but, it's some degree of skill nevertheless. Skill boils down to the player ability to interact with the game, gear boils down to what the character is wearing and using as a weapon.
Besides, that example was mostly given to demonstrate which is more relevant when both exist to a moderate extent.
My point with it was; Which out of the two can be removed completely without killing off damage output.
Post by
206732
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
520560
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Braevia
No. Even though flawed,it's the only way in-game I can recognize noobs. Also,remember,it has also the Dmg done meter and not only the dos meter
It's not hard to recognize bad players. They're the ones who, at level 28 in Razorfen Kraul, pull out their Voidwalker and throw one Shadowbolt every 10 seconds or so.
That said, I like Recount. It's very useful in gauging the effectiveness of a new spec/rotation/gear change/gemming choice. The problem is when people decide to live and die by their meters. Recount should absolutely never be displayed during a raid. You need the screen space, and trying to race with the other DPS to the top has a way of making normally intelligent players do incredibly stupid things (stand in fire, pull aggro from the tank, etc.)
Look at Recount *after* the fight, and think about what you could be doing better then.
Post by
404908
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
361800
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
I believe nothing a person says should be said without some thought behind it. And if something is said that is in fact wrong, I expect them to admit it.
I know. I say it's obvious what the person meant, and you say they need to make it more obvious. This is what the argument between us two is about.
Here's what you're not getting -- I know what the person meant. Stop falling back on that stupid defense. Take your interpretation
here
. Notice that I never once say "you interpreted it wrong." What I did do was proceed to argue against it. It maybe be a correct interpretation of the original statement, but that doesn't automatically make it factual.
I am not arguing interpretation -- you are. I'm arguing against the validity of the claims themselves.
Post by
524320
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Lohr
I only really use recount on boss fights especially raid bosses that don't have much moving around.
Patchwerk was a good boss to determine HPS and DPS. Other then that I could careless what you do to trash!
I have a little issue with Recount only because its not really nice to Disc Priests. That's my problem..
Post by
334295
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
334295
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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