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Recount needs to die.
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Post by
334295
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Deivijs
Oh really, so how do we tell when someone is slacking you smartasses, i could be standing there doing nothing and nobody will even notice and collect loot after.
Really, think before you post.
Post by
TinyPhreak
Notice that I never once say "you interpreted it wrong." What I did do was proceed to argue against it. It maybe be a correct interpretation of the original statement, but that doesn't automatically make it factual.
I am not arguing interpretation -- you are. I'm arguing against the validity of the claims themselves.
Why would
you
say "you interpreted it wrong", when it's
my
claim that you're the one doing the interpretation wrong? Makes little sense, but since you claim that it's irrelevant, lets leave that out.
So... if you're seriously against the premise that skill matters more than gear, or -- as you've said yourself -- even arguing against the "by itself, skill will give you damage, whereas gear will not" statement, I give up, you're in some other imaginary land that I refuse to enter.
I've given a clear reason why it's asinine to argue against and, to make it even more juicy, your comment about putting on different gear and auto-attacking is silly since you refused to up the skill in the other end, i.e. leaving the Skill part a constant, giving the comparison a biased result. It was a really childish comparison to be honest.
Maybe just leave it at "I disagree", because this is becoming a tad annoying, and you're getting a bit too upset for my liking, even if it's a bit entertaining. ;P
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
your comment about putting on different gear and auto-attacking is silly since you refused to up the skill in the other end, i.e. leaving the Skill part a constant, giving the comparison a biased result.
You don't understand basic proportionality.
DPS ~ Gear
or
DPS = k * Gear, where k = Skill
Similarly,
DPS ~ Skill
or
DPS = k * Skill, where k = Gear
You can't make any direct value claims without a constant,
k
.
Now granted there are other factors that come into the equation too (latency, mechanics, tps, etc.); I'm just keeping it to the variables in question.
you're getting a bit too upset for my liking
You apparently don't know me.
Post by
fireskeith
I've given a clear reason why it's asinine to argue against and, to make it even more juicy, your comment about putting on different gear and auto-attacking is silly since you refused to up the skill in the other end, i.e. leaving the Skill part a constant, giving the comparison a biased result. It was a really childish comparison to be honest.
Maybe just leave it at "I disagree", because this is becoming a tad annoying, and you're getting a bit too upset for my liking, even if it's a bit entertaining. ;P
Skill is a constant, its merely a constant that varies from player to player. My skill level won't change when I add/remove gear. granted one can become more skilled in the game but its kinda dumb to show that since we aren't trying to compare ourselves to how we were two months ago or 1 year ago we can't keep track of our own skill and our gear has changed so much since then.
So you end up having to treat skill as a constant it just doesn't change quickly enough or big enough to warrant treating it otherwise.
Post by
306612
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Post by
296147
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Post by
TinyPhreak
A room-mate decided to disconnect my internet without my approval, so my post was lost in the ways of page not being found. Can't be bothered to type it all out again.
@Hyperspacerebel and fireskeith:
In short, because of above mentioned reason; Only counting the two variables of skill and gear, in the environment of, say, hitting a test dummy, I agree that skill and gear are equally as important for damage output. However... since, in a raiding scenario, skill accounts for other important things like not standing in a fire and knowing -- and being able to execute -- certain fight-specific tasks, I still believe there's more than 50% of contribution to damage done coming from skill.
Then again, no one's mentioned that it was a perfect 50-50 contribution either, I suppose... except in your calculation fireskeith, but I'm guessing it was more to prove a point? Meh.
Getting late, see you tomorrow.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
A room-mate decided to disconnect my internet without my approval, so my post was lost in the ways of page not being found. Can't be bothered to type it all out again.
@Hyperspacerebel and fireskeith:
In short, because of above mentioned reason; Only counting the two variables of skill and gear, in the environment of, say, hitting a test dummy, I agree that skill and gear are equally as important for damage output. However... since, in a raiding scenario, skill accounts for other important things like not standing in a fire and knowing -- and being able to execute -- certain fight-specific tasks, I still believe there's more than 50% of contribution to damage done coming from skill.
Then again, no one's mentioned that it was a perfect 50-50 contribution either, I suppose... except in your calculation fireskeith, but I'm guessing it was more to prove a point? Meh.
Getting late, see you tomorrow.
Again, you don't understand proportions...no one said anything about 50-50.
Post by
Deathknight93
Because Gearscore helps me not stand in fire...
Post by
300001
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
304214
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Post by
340332
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rubendesmet619
lol, love this treat.
"I suck at DPS and have nobody to blame, but I'm imba so it can't be me, wait, ofcourse, it's the addon they use to figur out I suck monkeyballs."
/eyeroll.
And if you wanne calculate somthing like skil, I think it's more of a matter of:
Maximum possible to reach DPS(gearscore -10% - +10%(higher Ilv=/= better DPS so we take a 10% margin into account).
DPS= 1 * the ammount that gets used to use his gear, in my guild this wil range from 90%-95%(perfect rotation doesn't exist) on tank and spank bosses. Put them into a spreadsheet and then I can be pretty sure that there DPS in bosfights wil be about 0.9-0.95 of what said spreadhseet said.
Post by
327154
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Astygia
OH LOOK, ANOTHER CRY THREAD!
Normally I'm not a very discriminating person in terms of gearscore etc, but I gotta agree.
Meters are important, and as hyperspace is getting at, gear does contribute quite a lot to how you look on the meter. A dps with a GS over 5k should be pumping out some decent numbers, on boss fights at least. But when you got a person who's just plain doing craptastic, not craptastic compared to the guy who dramatically overgears the place but just plain terrible by any standards...the meter doesn't make things up to be a jerk. It's math, it's there, and if you're doing poorly, it'll show. Granted trash dies so quickly these days, some classes (especially fresh 80s) do not have time to ramp up so that's understandable and perfectly ok. And someone else mentioned, latency/hardware goes a looong way in this too. As with everything else, apply common sense before trashing someone over recount.
It may seem off-topic, but it's not: this thread demonstrates that it's up to us as players to try and educate new folks and bads. The way the game has grown since vanilla has perpetuated a major rift between the levelling grind and the endgame; it's wider than it ever was. Lots of folks honestly have no idea sites like this exist, they go from levelling to dinging 80 to 'ok now wtf do I do' and start running heroics. So when we see this reflected on recount... this is where you can succumb to your instant urge to kick/trash someone for not pulling their weight... or take 2 minutes of your time to briefly ask if they're fairly new to dpsing, if they know about the great class guides here at wowhead or elitistjerks, etc. You can turn bads into goods this way and solve your meter QQ. I've seen it happen, I've made it happen.
You can't fix all the bads...some people really do just suck, and tools like recount, and gearscore to a lesser extent, will always be their undoing. But you can fix many of them, and you can't blame the tools for showing us what's what.
Post by
Asylu
Recount is just fine. I like having it. I may not top the DPS, but I seem to do a hella lot of overall damage, more than the tanks usually. As for the idiot spammers of Recount....why is it bothering you? If you aren't doing enough damage....respec and gear up.
As for GearScore.....that thing is a pain in the....you get the picture. I have never seen it used for any good on any server. If you
need
to know someone's gearscore go to WoW Heroes, they are more accurate that the addon. I've seen that thing bug out way to much to trust it.
Post by
108376
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
dhampir1989
I love the lacking "maths" thrown around in this thread.
If we are making a "proper" model of any individual's DPS, then the equation in question would be of the form:
DPS = f(s)
Where f() is some non-linear function of gear and spec that defines both the limit and scaling of DPS with "skill". For some specs, this may rapidly grow to 90% or so of the theoretical maximum of the function, then slowly increase. Equally it may only approximate to the theoretical maximum at higher levels of "skill".
And that's before we move onto the contribution to other player's DPS through buffs/healing/debugging etc
Post by
484925
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