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The Good, the Bad, the Ugly
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Post by
taurenmoo812
Sigh..
Even though I didn't start this (my post being the one that got picked at first), I'd sooner not get blamed for derailing someones thread, so I'll choose another character.
Dranosh Saurfang:
Good: Was an uncorrupted and proud warrior who was a commander, going from the simple orc in nagrand to becoming something more.
Bad: Was killed and corrupted and used as a puppet by the lich king, forsaking all he once believed in to what the lich king made him into.
Ugly: Was brash when facing the lich king at the wrath gate without knowing the full scale of what he was up against.
Post by
Monday
And thus the thread derails...
Nope. Its a discussion. There aren't any flames, just disproving points in a generally polite (if not polite it's at least not insulting) way.
Post by
Orranis
Frankly, the same can be said for all horde leaders and those of the horde who didn't report what they saw in undercity to Thrall, so really it wasn't just Thralls fault, ppl need to get over thatRight, but the thing is, Thrall is the Warchief. He's responsible for the whole Horde. The Horde isn't a democracy or a republic, rather, it has Thrall as its definitive leader.
Thrall has power over the entire Horde, and as such, he is responsible for the whole Horde. If the Forsaken have a dreadlord as their second in command, he's responsible for that. He is responsible for everyone under him, including Sylvanas and the Forsaken.
Think of it in terms of the army. If one person screws up, it's not just them that gets in trouble, but their commander, and their commander's commander.
Or you could think of it as a business. Suppose someone in a factory doesn't follow safety protocol and someone dies because of a contaminated product. The responsibility doesn't just fall on the person who didn't follow protocol, but the whole company, including the president.
You know skee this what you said gives a level of clarity.
What it basicly gives an example of is, Thrall isn't perfect, and the mistakes he makes shows him as not being some devine entity or demi god over the orcs, but rather shows him as a man.
The mantle of warchief was given to him and he did the greatest thing for his people since they were so lost, but he isn't omnipathic and still has to find ways to adapt from being the slave he once was, to leading his own people.
Rl example seems to be the presidency. When something goes bad in america, it always comes back to the president, but his nation is so large he can't control or govern everything under him. That is down to such a leader putting trust in others to help govern it, so some much the same, Thrall put his faith in is allies.
I'd sooner have a warchief that makes mistakes and trys to correct them, then one that rules is an iron hand.
Yes, I agree. But I don't want just a flaw... I want a little piece of evil in every character. Every character I've made that I can think of (Except General Varjaxx, and arguably Ayren Skychaser) is good, but has some seriously corrupt parts.
Post by
Adamsm
Aye, I put in the first post discussions are allowed, so, we were discussing things. Seriously, if your not going to add anything and feel the need to put those in... do it somewhere else (and not referring to any one person, this is for everyone). This thread is about the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly; so if someone thinks an ugly is Magni Bronzebeard not sending people after his daughter, that's Fine. What isn't fine is picking a post apart, saying the poster is *insert random insult here* or anything else against the rules of the Forum.
Thrall, Son of Durotan
The Good:
Despite growing up as a slave to a drunken sadistic bastard, Thrall's inner strength and resolve were forged by the people he met before his time as the Warchief: his adopted sister, the Sergeant who taught him honour, Grom who showed him his background, Drek'thar who introduced him to the Spirits, Doomhammer for instilling his code of conduct and respect. He is a good leader, an honourable Orc and a good commander, who leads his people as best he can.
The Bad:
Thrall is far too trustworthy, and being used to only straight forward humans such as Blackmoore and then the Trolls and Taurens, who are similar to the Orcs, didn't prepare him for meeting with the Forsaken, who manipulated that into a large portion of power for themselves. Yes, like everyone else Thrall was caught flatfooted by the Wrathgate, but if he had not felt like leaving the Forsaken to rule themselves, and had sent a few advisors(let's call it like it is; Spies), he might have seen it coming sooner and been able to stop it.
The Ugly:
The fact that he was raised by a human, meaning he missed out on how his own kind grows up, which means the fact that his people don't always like going along with the peace he tries so hard to create wouldn't seem like such a surprise to him.
Post by
Orranis
Just to clarify, does bad mean evil or flaw?
Post by
Adamsm
Just to clarify, does bad mean evil or flaw?
Either or; if you pick someone like Illidan, it could be both, while if you pick someone like Jaina, it would be a flaw.
Post by
taurenmoo812
Varian Wrynn:
Good: He came back as a defacto alliance leader when they more of less didn't have one to follow. He is also protective of his people and his son.
Bad: His hatred for orcs is set to lead to unending conflicts between both sides and break the temporary settlement made between both sides, and his hatred runs so deep it ignores all those around him trying to share reason instead of warfair.
Ugly: The defias brotherhood being created due to them never being paid for rebuilding stormwind under his leadership lead to the death of his wife.
Post by
Adamsm
Ugly: The defias brotherhood being created due to them never being paid for rebuilding stormwind under his leadership lead to the death of his wife.Might want to alter it because of the House of Nobles and Lady Prestor manipulating the King....
Post by
Monday
Varian Wrynn:
Good: He came back as a defacto alliance leader when they more of less didn't have one to follow. He is also protective of his people and his son.
Bad: His hatred for orcs is set to lead to unending conflicts between both sides and break the temporary settlement made between both sides, and his hatred runs so deep it ignores all those around him trying to share reason instead of warfair.
Ugly: The defias brotherhood being created due to them never being paid for rebuilding stormwind under his leadership lead to the death of his wife.
I like how this is rather unbiased... but imo the ugly might be that he was best friends with Arthas... I dunno that just seems odd that he ignores his old friendship so completely, unlike Jaina. Perhaps it is memory loss...
And you might want to say it just led to the formation of the defias.
OMG lots of
...
Post by
taurenmoo812
Fine, maybe I should have just said he's a king with a split personality.
Post by
306612
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
taurenmoo812
I like how this is rather unbiased... but imo the ugly might be that he was best friends with Arthas... I dunno that just seems odd that he ignores his old friendship so completely, unlike Jaina. Perhaps it is memory loss...
Honestly, it feels more like a brain fart of Blizzard than anything willing or unwilling from Varian. Or he's come to terms with Arthas = not the Lich King more than Jaina.
its a retconn, something blizzard are famous for doing.
Next there be saying Groms death was merely a setback...
Post by
Adamsm
Least he's starting to change a little; doesn't see all orcs as dumb animals.
Post by
Monday
I like how this is rather unbiased... but imo the ugly might be that he was best friends with Arthas... I dunno that just seems odd that he ignores his old friendship so completely, unlike Jaina. Perhaps it is memory loss...
Honestly, it feels more like a brain fart of Blizzard than anything willing or unwilling from Varian. Or he's come to terms with Arthas = not the Lich King more than Jaina.
its a retconn, something blizzard are famous for doing.
Next there be saying Groms death was merely a setback...
It wasn't?
=O
No seriously, I think they just honestly forgot. It's kinda small, and really is only present in RotLK.
Post by
taurenmoo812
No seriously, I think they just honestly forgot. It's kinda small, and really is only present in RotLK.
Most are making a big thing of something you can only see in a 10man end of content dungeon. What are the odds come cataclysm he'll be back to his old way, out hunter innocent orc farmers with an elmer thud costume and gun.
Post by
Adamsm
No seriously, I think they just honestly forgot. It's kinda small, and really is only present in RotLK.
Most are making a big thing of something you can only see in a 10man end of content dungeon. What are the odds come cataclysm he'll be back to this old way, out hunter innocent orc farmers with an elmer thud costume and gun.
I doubt it, he'll have other threats to deal with compared to continuing to grinding the axe against the orcs.
Post by
taurenmoo812
No seriously, I think they just honestly forgot. It's kinda small, and really is only present in RotLK.
Most are making a big thing of something you can only see in a 10man end of content dungeon. What are the odds come cataclysm he'll be back to this old way, out hunter innocent orc farmers with an elmer thud costume and gun.
I doubt it, he'll have other threats to deal with compared to continuing to grinding the axe against the orcs.
Don't tell me you didn't hear the part of how hostilities between the horde and alliance is flamed because of the cataclysm and the worlds resources?
Post by
Adamsm
Don't tell me you didn't hear the part of how hostilities between the horde and alliance is flamed because of the cataclysm and the worlds resources?
I've heard that yes... but what does that have to do with Varian's vendetta against the Orc sticking around? It's the Horde vs the Alliance, not the Humans of Stormwind against the Orcs....
Post by
taurenmoo812
Don't tell me you didn't hear the part of how hostilities between the horde and alliance is flamed because of the cataclysm and the worlds resources?
I've heard that yes... but what does that have to do with Varian's vendetta against the Orc sticking around? It's the Horde vs the Alliance, not the Humans of Stormwind against the Orcs....
/facepalm
not even gonna bother..
Post by
Monday
Don't tell me you didn't hear the part of how hostilities between the horde and alliance is flamed because of the cataclysm and the worlds resources?
I've heard that yes... but what does that have to do with Varian's vendetta against the Orc sticking around? It's the Horde vs the Alliance, not the Humans of Stormwind against the Orcs....
Really though, the Alliance as a whole didn't declare war, it was Varian and the Humans of Stormwind that Declared war.
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