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The Good, the Bad, the Ugly
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Post by
Adamsm
Don't tell me you didn't hear the part of how hostilities between the horde and alliance is flamed because of the cataclysm and the worlds resources?
I've heard that yes... but what does that have to do with Varian's vendetta against the Orc sticking around? It's the Horde vs the Alliance, not the Humans of Stormwind against the Orcs....
/facepalm
not even gonna bother..
Well it is true; the Horde and Alliance are more then just Varian and Thrall after all.
Post by
taurenmoo812
Funden got the point right Adam, thats the truth.
Post by
Adamsm
Don't tell me you didn't hear the part of how hostilities between the horde and alliance is flamed because of the cataclysm and the worlds resources?
I've heard that yes... but what does that have to do with Varian's vendetta against the Orc sticking around? It's the Horde vs the Alliance, not the Humans of Stormwind against the Orcs....
Really though, the Alliance as a whole didn't declare war, it was Varian and the Humans of Stormwind that Declared war.
Well, let's consider this for a moment then shall we? The Warsong goes nuts, cuts down a huge area of Ashenvale, takes over a night elf base, lays siege to Astranaar. Forsaken are attacking Gilneas on the orders of a Warchief(Garrosh more then likely). Probably standard fights all across the world... but I don't really see it saying anywhere that it's only Varian attacking the Horde after all.....
Takes two sides to fight a war.
Post by
Monday
Don't tell me you didn't hear the part of how hostilities between the horde and alliance is flamed because of the cataclysm and the worlds resources?
I've heard that yes... but what does that have to do with Varian's vendetta against the Orc sticking around? It's the Horde vs the Alliance, not the Humans of Stormwind against the Orcs....
Really though, the Alliance as a whole didn't declare war, it was Varian and the Humans of Stormwind that Declared war.
Well, let's consider this for a moment then shall we? The Warsong goes nuts, cuts down a huge area of Ashenvale, takes over a night elf base, lays siege to Astranaar. Forsaken are attacking Gilneas on the orders of a Warchief(Garrosh more then likely). Probably standard fights all across the world... but I don't really see it saying anywhere that it's only Varian attacking the Horde after all.....
Takes two sides to fight a war.
Vairan doesn't speak for the Alliance, unlike the Horde. So perhaps a bit into cataclysm there will be war, but right now, and most likely throughout a bit of cataclysm its only Varian and the Humans who are at war.
Post by
taurenmoo812
I hate having to do this, but...
Well, let's consider this for a moment then shall we? The Warsong goes nuts, cuts down a huge area of Ashenvale, takes over a night elf base, lays siege to Astranaar.
We don't know if this arresive first move it caused because garrosh orders it right away, or because of the alliance taking over a chunk of the barrens from them. Nobody knows yet who strikes first.
Forsaken are attacking Gilneas on the orders of a Warchief(Garrosh more then likely). Probably standard fights all across the world... but I don't really see it saying anywhere that it's only Varian attacking the Horde after all.....
The war was already declared by Varian in wotlk.
Takes two sides to fight a war.
And only one to start it.
Vairan doesn't speak for the Alliance, unlike the Horde. So perhaps a bit into cataclysm there will be war, but right now, and most likely throughout a bit of cataclysm its only Varian and the Humans who are at war.
And if they happen to have dwarf, night elf, gnome and draenei allies with them that still makes it a human only thing right? I think those who still believe varian isn't the defacto leader of the alliance needs to look at the alliance forces in northrend, and who commands them.
Post by
Adamsm
Well, let's consider this for a moment then shall we? The Warsong goes nuts, cuts down a huge area of Ashenvale, takes over a night elf base, lays siege to Astranaar.
We don't know if this arresive first move it caused because garrosh orders it right away, or because of the alliance taking over a chunk of the barrens from them. Nobody knows yet who strikes first.The Warsong have been cutting lumber there for several years, and they and the Sentinels have been in a 'cold' type war for nearly as long; both sides striking at the others. While the Alliance takes over a 'chunk' it's all the dead side of it, and for all we know, that's in response to the Ashenvale strikes.
The war was already declared by Varian in wotlk.Yes... and was answered by Garrosh and his men at the Broken Front. But if this war was 'raging' now, wouldn't Varian have ordered the death of all the Horde they found in ICC? No, in fact, he let's a grieving father take his son's body from the battle field and leaves the Horde untouched while they push deeper into the Citadel. You can't just declare something as not counting because it doesn't fit your view of a character.
Vairan doesn't speak for the Alliance, unlike the Horde. So perhaps a bit into cataclysm there will be war, but right now, and most likely throughout a bit of cataclysm its only Varian and the Humans who are at war.
And if they happen to have dwarf, night elf, gnome and draenei allies with them that still makes it a human only thing right? I think those who still believe varian isn't the defacto leader of the alliance needs to look at the alliance forces in northrend, and who commands them.So, in that vein of thinking, because Garrosh is the leader of Northrend forces, he speaks for everyone in Northrend? The dwarves/elves/Frostborn/Humans all report to their particular commanders, who in turn report to Varian, but that's only as part of the Vanguard; outside of those 4 factions, he has no pull over the other races standing armies, their lead by their own commanders.
Post by
Monday
I hate having to do this, but...
Well, let's consider this for a moment then shall we? The Warsong goes nuts, cuts down a huge area of Ashenvale, takes over a night elf base, lays siege to Astranaar.
We don't know if this arresive first move it caused because garrosh orders it right away, or because of the alliance taking over a chunk of the barrens from them. Nobody knows yet who strikes first.
Forsaken are attacking Gilneas on the orders of a Warchief(Garrosh more then likely). Probably standard fights all across the world... but I don't really see it saying anywhere that it's only Varian attacking the Horde after all.....
The war was already declared by Varian in wotlk.
Takes two sides to fight a war.
And only one to start it.
Vairan doesn't speak for the Alliance, unlike the Horde. So perhaps a bit into cataclysm there will be war, but right now, and most likely throughout a bit of cataclysm its only Varian and the Humans who are at war.
And if they happen to have dwarf, night elf, gnome and draenei allies with them that still makes it a human only thing right? I think those who still believe varian isn't the defacto leader of the alliance needs to look at the alliance forces in northrend, and who commands them.
You can have soldiers of every race fighting, but until the leaders declare their support for Varian's war they technically aren't at war yet.
Post by
taurenmoo812
Yes... and was answered by Garrosh and his men at the Broken Front. But if this war was 'raging' now, wouldn't Varian have ordered the death of all the Horde they found in ICC? No, in fact, he let's a grieving father take his son's body from the battle field and leaves the Horde untouched while they push deeper into the Citadel. You can't just declare something as not counting because it doesn't fit your view of a character.
Unless the man in question happens to have two personalities.
And Varian did declare it. One situation of an orc father claiming his sons body doesn't change the setup he made towards the orcs. Blizzard in there famous means of making retconns will turn that around and just have it forgotten what varian acted like there.
The Warsong have been cutting lumber there for several years, and they and the Sentinels have been in a 'cold' type war for nearly as long; both sides striking at the others. While the Alliance takes over a 'chunk' it's all the dead side of it, and for all we know, that's in response to the Ashenvale strikes.
We're just have to agree to disagree on that, since it can come from either side who makes the first move.
anyway, gotta call it a night, I'll leave you to carry on debating
Post by
Adamsm
Yes... and was answered by Garrosh and his men at the Broken Front. But if this war was 'raging' now, wouldn't Varian have ordered the death of all the Horde they found in ICC? No, in fact, he let's a grieving father take his son's body from the battle field and leaves the Horde untouched while they push deeper into the Citadel. You can't just declare something as not counting because it doesn't fit your view of a character.
Unless the man in question happens to have two personalities.
And Varian did declare it. One situation of an orc father claiming his sons body doesn't change the setup he made towards the orcs. Blizzard in there famous means of making retconns will turn that around and just have it forgotten what varian acted like there. Meh, whatever; I'm going to look at that like it should be seen; a chance for Varian to actually grow and become a better king. I never said Varian didn't declare war, and again, Garrosh answered that declaration of War as well, so, in that vein, it's already occurring.... but the larger threats are forcing it to be put aside which is right. We don't know the full thing for Cata, but as we know 3 of the Leaders of the Alliance; Varian Wrynn, Genn Graymane, and Tyrande Whisperwind are the equal of Garrosh Hellscream and Sylvanas Windrunner when it comes to aggression, this is not a one sided War, both sides have those who are chomping for the chance to fight.
Yes, Thrall, Jaina, Magni, Vol'jin and Cairne would all be happier if there was no war.... but not everyone on Azeroth agrees with that; and unfortunately the more aggressive ones seem to have the larger armies then the peaceful ones.
Post by
Adamsm
Tyrande Whisperwind
(pre-Knaak)
The Good:
Ruled the Night Elf race while her husband, the Archdruid was asleep in the Dream. Is the High Priestess of Elune, and took her duties seriously, striking back against an invading force in the ancient forests of her peoples lands. Was able to put aside her own feelings to unite with the Invaders; Humans and Orcs alike, to fight with them at Hyjal to stop the Burning Legion. Since that point, she's been Knaak's creation....
The Bad:
Freeing her brother in law by slaughtering the Guardians and the Keeper keeping Illidan locked up. And to a point, her attacks on the Humans and Orcs when they first arrived on Kalimdor.
The Ugly:
Knaak's transformation of her; nuff said.
Post by
306612
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
Eh, we don't see Magni picking fights if he can help, same as Brann. I put Vol'jin in mainly because he goes along fairly well with what Thrall decrees, but obviously he doesn't 'speak' for all the Darkspears. And Cairne is an educated guess.. but it is a good one; he even tells Thrall he wants nothing more then to be able to settle somewhere in peace and live out his days without conflict(either Rise of the Horde or in WC3).
Post by
Orranis
Tyrande Whisperwind
(pre-Knaak)
The Good:
Ruled the Night Elf race while her husband, the Archdruid was asleep in the Dream. Is the High Priestess of Elune, and took her duties seriously, striking back against an invading force in the ancient forests of her peoples lands. Was able to put aside her own feelings to unite with the Invaders; Humans and Orcs alike, to fight with them at Hyjal to stop the Burning Legion. Since that point, she's been Knaak's creation....
The Bad:
Freeing her brother in law by slaughtering the Guardians and the Keeper keeping Illidan locked up. And to a point, her attacks on the Humans and Orcs when they first arrived on Kalimdor.
The Ugly:
Knaak's transformation of her; nuff said.
Essentially... She's a crazy b**** (As her ugly.)
Post by
Adamsm
Essentially... She's a crazy b****Exactly, and Knaak ruined that heh.
Post by
Interest
Ooo. This sounds fun.. Time to use the lore character I'm most obsessed with.
The Lich King:
The Good:
Surprisingly, he is quite merciful. He could easily have beaten the crap out of us as 70s, but instead lets us get "stronger."
The Bad
: Well, he also kinda is the leader of the Scourge, who are attempting to destroy all life on Azeroth.
The Ugly:
Cruel. Has no heart, and cannot be redeemed, apparently. On top of that, people are going to be hard pressed to beat him.
Post by
Orranis
Ooo. This sounds fun.. Time to use the lore character I'm most obsessed with.
The Lich King:
The Good:
Surprisingly, he is quite merciful. He could easily have beaten the crap out of us as 70s, but instead lets us get "stronger."
The Bad
: Well, he also kinda is the leader of the Scourge, who are attempting to destroy all life on Azeroth.
The Ugly:
Cruel. Has no heart, and cannot be redeemed, apparently. On top of that, people are going to be hard pressed to beat him.
You does not know the l0r3z! What iz 70'z?
You're going to be more hard pressed than that.
The Lich King
The Good:
If we were all controlled by a single unifying force, there would be no war.
The Bad
: Well, he also kinda is the leader of the Scourge, who are attempting to destroy all life on Azeroth.
The Ugly:
Cruel. Has no heart, and cannot be redeemed, apparently. On top of that, people are going to be hard pressed to beat him.
:D I love me ma dark good.
Post by
Patty
Lady Jaina Proudmoore
The Good:
You know what I'm like with Jaina. She is open-minded, and willing to negotiate in order for her people to have peace and prosperity. She also led the Humans at Mount Hyjal, giving her mountains of experience in battle. In my opinion, her attitude is where the future is at!
The Bad:
She's been around a lot. Also, because of her willingness to co-operate through 'diplomatic relations' (Read it as you wish) , many people in the Eastern Kingdoms mistrust her.
The Ugly:
She suffers from the human female's saggy $%^& syndrome.
Post by
Adamsm
Malfurion Stormrage
The Good:
First true Night Elf druid(as in, wasn't turned into a son/daughter of Cenarius), studied under Cenarius and helped saved his people from the Legion multiple times; War of the Ancients and Hyjal. Is one of the few mortals Deathwing hates as he stole his trinket. Cares deeply for his wife, and felt some sadness about what happened to his brother.
The Bad:
Imposed a harsh sentence on his Brother for re-creating the Well of Eternity. Has the standard Night Elf prejudices, but seems to not let them rule him as so many of the others do. And likes to blow things up when something else could be used.
The Ugly:
Has been missing from Azeroth for the last 3 years, a time when he could be used.
Illidan Stormrage
The Good:
Helped his brother stop the Legion during War of the Ancients. Fought at Hyjal to keep the Dreadlord from reaching the Demon Forces to help them take the World Tree. Helped to free the Ashtongue Broken from the Legion. Attempted to destroy Arthas. Cared deeply for Tyrande.
The Bad:
Was arrogant, believed he himself was supposed to be the greatest Night Elf in existence. Was jealous of his brother who mastered the art of Druidism, and won the love of Tyrande. Willingly betrayed the Allies in War of the Ancients to gain more power from the Legion. Ate the Skull of Gul'dan during the Third War to gain more power to defeat the Dreadlord, the resulting fight creating the Felwood. Was a servant of Kil'jaeden and transformed the same lands he had freed into his own personal kingdom.
The Ugly:
His jealousy of his brother, and his desire for power above all else.
Post by
HiVolt
Adams, you forgot to mention Malfurion's penchant for blowing !@#$ up.
Post by
Adamsm
Adams, you forgot to mention Malfurion's penchant for blowing !@#$ up.
Added in heh.
Essentially... She's a crazy b**** (As her ugly.)Eh, no, I liked her as the crazy B****; Knaak ruined that with his 'peace and love' personality he imposed on her in the War of the Ancients Trilogy. Sorry face, misread that originally.
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