This site makes extensive use of JavaScript.
Please enable JavaScript in your browser.
Classic Theme
Thottbot Theme
Seal of Command Good For Tanking?
Post Reply
Return to board index
Post by
454052
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Jaidean
I've been using it for heroics and raid trash. The best part about it is that it now procs off Shield of Righteousness and Judgement (Only if spec'd into Judgements of the Just).
What I like about it is the snap aggro potential. If a mob gets near you, the cleave will smack it and hopefully peal it off someone.
Plus, it's fun to see all those numbers flying everywhere.
Post by
Dunsinane
100% optional for a tank.
Some like it, some find better use for the talent point elsewhere as AoE threat is something Paladins haven't had an issue with since Blizzard got serious about their tanking potential in BC.
Pick it up if you want, use it on trash.
Post by
blademeld
I thought Dunsinane double posted.
But yes, it's completely a valid tanking tool.
Post by
PureGold
I thought Dunsinane double posted.
But yes, it's completely a valid tanking tool.
Me too.
I agree, its valid but optional. It isn't really needed and some people will prefer to spend that point elsewhere.
Post by
Silversmith
Just remember, it's strictly for heroics/naxx. ICC trash lives long enough for venegance to pull ahead, and you run the risk of forgetting to switch for boss. Pugged ICC10 few days ago, and we were wiping on saurfang due to adds sticking to one of tanks. Guess the reason, you have three tries.
Post by
mojojojo101
Is it really neccesary? I mean its not like paladins lack (aoe) threat is it. The only people ive lost aggro to in the last 2 months have been a fury warrior who over geared me ridiculously and a hunter who at the time was pulling 14k tps (11k dps) ish.
Also afaik HotR spreads vengeance over all mobs it hits.(confirm?)
Post by
Dunsinane
100% optional for a tank.
Don't see where anyone has said that SoCommand is necessary. And yes, HotR spreads SoV around.
Post by
Quest
Is it really neccesary? I mean its not like paladins lack (aoe) threat is it. The only people ive lost aggro to in the last 2 months have been a fury warrior who over geared me ridiculously and a hunter who at the time was pulling 14k tps (11k dps) ish.
Also afaik HotR spreads vengeance over all mobs it hits.(confirm?)
SoC is still more DPS under 30~ seconds and better snap aggro so AoE can start immediately where AoE is strong enough to take aggro from SoV. It being optional doesn't mean anything more.
Post by
432660
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
pezz
I'm surprised no one has framed the question like this yet, but what exactly does one typically give up to get that one point for SoComm? If I still had a prot paladin, the answer to that would really be the only way I decided whether to take SoC or not.
Post by
Quest
What you give up for SoC is negligible compared to what it is for. Namely 1% crit.
You -could- give up other things but youd be silly.
Post by
pezz
Psh, I'd take SoComm then. 1% crit isn't make or break in single target fights and it's hugely inferior to SoComm on short multi-target fights.
Post by
276004
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
trademen
Needed, no. But It's really really fun to pull 5k+ dps on trash in heroics, effectively making everyone dps question their manhood. So i have it.
Post by
hatman555
I run a lot of heroics on my paladin, more heroics than anyone I know. Yet at the same time I'm a main tank for my 25 man raids. So my spec is very much catered to that. Single target threat VS. multi target threat.
(SPEC)
. I also have a ret spec, that I haven't really used since before ulduar came out, but I have it because I keep rolling on Ret PVE gear and getting it :-P.
All in all I didn't really have a lot of room to mess around with my specs. BUT last weekend I wanted to try to whole SOC tanking business and I made the following spec and glyphs set up. Its only goal was to achieve the most DPS/TPS.
here is is
. When 3.3 came out I started keeping a record of the overall damage at the end of a PUG heroic. I have 95 heroics recorded as of yesterday. So I took my new SOC spec into some heroics and started to test it out.
I was not impressed. I was expecting something like 7K damage. Any while numbers filled my screen, they were all very small. So I know its a small sample size but here is how my conclusions came out.
I ran 4 heroics with the spec. Gundrak, DTK, VH, Nexus.
-I took the over all damage from these runs and compared it to the over all damage of my other runs. 75% of the heroics with my old SOV spec had less DPS. 300-400 less. BUT 90% of the heroics run before SOC had higher overall damage. Sometimes a good 5% more overall damage.
SOC tanking?
So burst DPS = yes
Overall DPS = no
Most of the runs looked like this:
SOC Ares Overall Damage = 1.6million to 1.9million At (3900-4400 DPS)
SOV Ares Overall Damage = 1.9 million to 2.2million AT(3300-3800 DPS)
How did it feel to me?
I didn't like it. While I could get snap threat on 6+ mobs no problem. I never really had a problem with that before. The only thing that changed is now I as having problems kiting mobs on larger pulls. The first 3 mobs would be off me and attacking a healer by the time i had pulled 9 more people. It was very frustrating to have to stop, turn around, run back, and hit those mobs again. While a single stack of Corruption doesn't do too too much damage, its DOT effect was helping me where the SOC snap threat was not.
My final conclusions are this: Respecting and tanking with SOC, is a fun gimmick. It servers no other purpose but to show you a little bit more about your class. If you can tank correctly with SOV then you don't need SOC because you weren't having any problems in the first place. If you love SOC, good for you. I don't
Cheers,
Hat
Post by
326684
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
blademeld
Limited testing in PuGs?
/sigh
Post by
hatman555
Limited testing in PuGs?
/sigh
Most of my post deals with how I feel about SOC as a tanking seal. I said it myself that i had a very small sample size and that if I really wanted to get into testing it i would do it again in the far and distant future.
If I wanted numbers i would test with 4 of my guildies, if i want to see how it will do in PUG heroics, then i guess i should test it in pug heroics.
Meh, dumped my massive wall of text.
Losing threat to your healer means you didn't use SoComm well enough. Perhaps it has something to do with the talents you gave up because it makes you relatively squishy.
I wanted to tank the heroics with SOC just like I tank them with SOV, pull as many mobs as i can and then AOE down. If a PUG healer starts blasting me with heals before im done running, I'm going to lose a mob or too, and so would you.
Considering turning a problem is also not a sign of a serious tank. When ever something doesn't go the way you want it to, its a problem. When I use SOV I don't need to change my movements to assist the DPS that wanted to start early. The run goes faster when you can keep moving and not need to deal with as many issues.
Don't mean to flame but don't think your review of SoComm is fair.
You do mean to flame. If you didn't mean to flame then you wouldn't have made that last comment about me not being a serious tank.
But that's ok, because my SOC review is NOT fair. Its opinion based on how I felt a very limited amount of runs went. I never suggested otherwise. The reason i posted it, is because lots of people were getting their 2 cents in about SOC and i wanted to say some stuff too. If something I said can get another tank thinking about different elements of it, then i have done my job.
SoComm is a great tool for trash packs. Majority of what you will see in ICC. In the hands of an experienced tank it works wonders. While you can tank fine without it, the DPS contribution you make to trash packs between bosses will only make your runs faster.
I had a lot of time to kill during the first week of ICC, and I wanted to be one of the first Blacksmiths on the server with the ICC rep patterns. So I did a lot of rep runs. Rep runs, consisted of clearing the first room of trash before Lord Marrowgar, resetting the raid, and then doing it all over again. I would solo tank the 10 man rep farming groups, in the current spec that I have now, which means no 4th hammer hit. Before any of the trash mobs died in every pull I could get 5 stacks of SOV up on at least 5 if not 6 targets.
Its been said on these boards and almost on every other tanking boards over and over again, that SOV, does more damage and more threat than SOC, on anything that lives over 15 seconds. Even with the extra DPS we had because I was solo tanking it, the trash would still be up way longer than 15 seconds.
Other trash in ICC:
Lady death whisper, lasts longer than 15 seconds
Gunships, lasts longer than 15 seconds
Plague wing, yup longer than 15 seconds there too
Blood wing, yup
The trash before Valithria Dreamwalker lasts longer than 15 seconds.
The trash that spawns during her fight? Well if i didn't use the SOV glyph for +10 expertise, then i would probably use SOR not SOC.
The spiders trash after Dreamwalker, well there you could use SOC to help you with the little spiders, but who really cares about the little spiders.
Trash before Sindragosa....well the whelps die pretty quick, but the guard doesn't, so i don't see the need to switch.
I would say something about the trash before the lich king, but i haven't seen that yet, getting close tho.
I love SOV, i hate SOC. Thats my bias.
Cheers,
Hat
Post by
blademeld
If I wanted numbers i would test with 4 of my guildies, if i want to see how it will do in PUG heroics, then i guess i should test it in pug heroics.
Unless you have a larger sample size for the PuGs it would have been better to run with guildies.
You lost out on both precision and accuracy due to the fallacy of limited testing and biased opinions.
In fact, if we take your limited data, it leans to SoC being superior in heroics.
Post Reply
You are not logged in. Please
log in
to post a reply or
register
if you don't already have an account.