This site makes extensive use of JavaScript.
Please enable JavaScript in your browser.
Classic Theme
Thottbot Theme
Gems: Armor Penatration Vs Strength?
Post Reply
Return to board index
Post by
17138
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
skumbananer
it depends. Do you have 26 expertise? (18 with2/2 weapon mastery) if you dont, gemming for expertise is best. Do you have 8% hit? If you dont, gemming for hit is best.
Do you like the migraine that follows from calculating things in a video game obsessively to gain a miniscule advantage instead of doing something fun? If you do, then stack armor penetration.
Imho keep the theorycrafting to a minimum and perform almost as good.
the only math you have to worry about is getting to 26 expertise and 8%hit. If your fury you can go over that hit, for arms additional hit is wasted. beyond that, strength and crit is your bread and butter. gem for strength, str/sta (in blue slots) and crit/str in yellow slots. meta 3% crit damage with agility or crit, doesnt matter.
haste, armor pen (and additional hit if fury) is just icing on the cake, for the icing on the cake stats, favor armor penetration.
Armor penetration is a boring stat that requires a lot of math. Who likes math? no one likes math.
Post by
Zakkhar
As fury you stack STR, as Arm you stack STR and/or ArP.
Arp has wierd scaling, the more you have it, the better are the next points in it.
For arms at low end gear STR and ArP are pretty similar. At higher end gear ArP scales best.
Hashmel's post should cover all:
ARMS
Hit Cap
The base hit cap before talents/racials is 262.32 rating
Heroic Presence is worth 32.79 rating
Take the base rating and subtract any of the above values that apply then round up to the nearest whole number.
Expertise Cap
The base expertise cap before talents/racials is 213.135 rating
Master of Arms is worth 16.395 / 32.79 rating
Weapon Mastery is worth 32.79 / 65.58 rating
Human Sword/Mace spec is worth 24.5925 rating
Dwarf Mace and Orc Axe specs are worth 40.9875 rating
Take the base rating and subtract any of the above values that apply then round up to the nearest whole number.
Armor Penetration Cap
The base cap for ArP is 1,399 rating
Battle Stance is worth 139.9 rating
2xT9 is worth 83.94 rating
Grim Toll is worth 612 rating
Needle-Encrusted Scoprion is worth 678 rating
Mjolnir's Runestone is worth 665 rating
Take the base rating and subtract any of the above values that apply then round up to the nearest whole number.
My general rule of thumb for gemming arms.
Relentless Earthseige Diamond for the meta
Nightmare Tear in the most beneficial non-red, preferably blue socket bonus, usually the head, legs, or chest
Yellows offering ~7 or more strength are to be matched with Etched (strength/hit) if below hit cap or Inscribed (strength/crit) if above hit cap
All reds, blues (not including the Nightmare Tear) and yellows offering less than ~7 strength are to be filled with Precise (expertise) if below expertise cap, Bold (strength), or Fractured (ArP)
only if
you can reach your respective ArP cap or fairly close by doing so
Spec
54/15/0+2
Invest the last points in Weapon Mastery or Improved Execute based on the expertise values listed above
Move the 5 from Poleaxe as your available weapon dictates
Tactical Mastery can be moved to Iron Will depending on preference
Commanding Presence can be moved to Improved Demoralizing Shout if you're responsible for the AP debuff
The glyphs included are not up for discussion
FURY
Hit Cap
The base hit cap before talents/racials is 262.32 rating
Heroic Presence is worth 32.79 rating
1/2/3 Precision is worth 32.79 / 65.58 / 98.37 rating
Take the base rating and subtract any of the above values that apply then round up to the nearest whole number.More doesn't hurt as it still benefits white damage but it won't be as valuable as an equal amount of strength, ArP, or crit.
Expertise Cap
The base expertise cap before talents/racials is 213.135 rating
Human Sword/Mace spec is worth 24.5925 rating
Dwarf Mace and Orc Axe specs are worth 40.9875 rating
Take the base rating and subtract any of the above values that apply then round up to the nearest whole number. (As fury your mainhand expertise is what matters)
Armor Penetration Cap
The base cap for ArP is 1,399 rating
Grim Toll is worth 612 rating
Needle-Encrusted Scoprion is worth 678 rating
Mjolnir's Runestone is worth 665 rating
Take the base rating and subtract any of the above values that apply then round up to the nearest whole number.
My general rule of thumb for gemming fury.
Relentless Earthseige Diamond for the meta
Nightmare Tear in the most beneficial non-red, preferably blue socket bonus, usually the head, legs, or chest
Yellows offering ~6 or more strength are to be matched with Etched (strength/hit) if below hit cap or Inscribed (strength/crit) if above hit cap; feel free to ignore the bonus if you can reach your respective ArP cap in doing so
All reds, blues (not including the Nightmare Tear) and yellows offering less than ~6 strength are to be filled with Precise (expertise) if below expertise cap, Bold (strength), or Fractured (ArP)
only if
you can reach your respective ArP cap or fairly close by doing so
Spec
18/53/0
Tier 1, after Improved Heroic Strike, and tier 2 talents in arms are fillers and as such can be moved based on preference
Commanding Presence can be moved to Improved Demoralizing Shout if you're responsible for the AP debuff, can invest in Unbridled Wrath of you're responsible for neither
The glyphs included are not up for discussion
Post by
pak52b
i gemmed arp the other day to hit the hard cap with food buff, and, even though i only did a 10 man, my dps seemed to have dropped.. i regemmed to str now again (or am in the process at least) - ill stay at the soft arp cap.
Post by
hashmel
I'm unsure how you hit the hard cap unless you changed several gear pieces, changing all but the tear to Fractured (and 3 fractured dragon's eyes) only gets you to 949 ArP plus 40 more from food for a total of 989 which is still 410 below hard cap which would indeed show a decrease in dps over strength + soft cap.
On topic, that Hashmel guy Zakkhar quoted has some good info for a general arms/fury build. =)
Post by
364444
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
pak52b
I'm unsure how you hit the hard cap unless you changed several gear pieces, changing all but the tear to Fractured (and 3 fractured dragon's eyes) only gets you to 949 ArP plus 40 more from food for a total of 989 which is still 410 below hard cap which would indeed show a decrease in dps over strength + soft cap.
On topic, that Hashmel guy Zakkhar quoted has some good info for a general arms/fury build. =)
Ehm, I am sitting at 843 ArP Rating with mostly all strength gems. (The weapon ones are being swapped out soon)... I had 17
additional
+20 gems (=340 rating) + 3 Dragon's Eyes (= 111) and food buff that went towards ArP. I also had removed bryntroll and equipped heroic reckoning.
So I hit the cap, but not completely with the same gear ;)
I just felt that I was hitting like a wet noodle in comparison to how I am now, maybe I didn't give it enough time though.
Post by
Zakkhar
I also had removed bryntroll and equipped heroic reckoning.
This.
Comparing lower ilvl
sword
with lots of haste on it to an
axe
which is superior in every aspect including weapon spec isnt very viable you know.
I just felt that I was hitting like a wet noodle in comparison to how I am now, maybe I didn't give it enough time though.
Sword spec, nuff said.
Post by
masti
Im currently very close to the hardcap as fury, all i need is the damn dbw to make it.
I recently downloaded landsouls spreed sheet to check how different it would be if i went all str instead and i would loose about 100dps if i did. So for arp for fury isnt worse then stacking just str. It becomes a bit better if you can get enough of it, but if your only way to get arp capped is by trinket, i would stcik with str gems.
Post by
pak52b
I also had removed bryntroll and equipped heroic reckoning.
This.
Comparing lower ilvl
sword
with lots of haste on it to an
axe
which is superior in every aspect including weapon spec isnt very viable you know.
I just felt that I was hitting like a wet noodle in comparison to how I am now, maybe I didn't give it enough time though.
Sword spec, nuff said.
First of all, sword spec plays no role for an expertise capped human
FURY
warrior, which I am, and my armory also reflects.
Secondly, replacing the
Bryntroll
in my mainhand, vs.
Ramaldini's
gives a loss of weapon damage, but at a gain of stats. (Yes, I know that Bryntroll is better, but it should not cause a damage difference
as noticeable
as I experienced.) I also tried keeping it as mainhand, so the loss was not entirely based on weapon damage. (I spent a stack of epic red gems that I had lying around - it would have been rather retarded not to test the different weapons etc... )
And for the record, I also tried using
Justicebringer
as an OH if it's the haste that bothers you.
Post by
Zakkhar
First of all, sword spec plays no role for an expertise capped human
FURY
warrior, which I am, and my armory also reflects.
Mea culpa, i didint bother checking your armory, because for me hard cap = automatically Arms.
And for the record, I also tried using
Justicebringer
as an OH if it's the haste that bothers you.
Haste bothers me only as Arms. I dont know much about Fury beside the fact i dont want to spec it.
You still used MH with lower average weapon damage and that comprimises your test a bit. Plus i am not so sure about ArP and Fury since you get so much AP of STR and every single skill scales of it.
Post by
pak52b
You still used MH with lower average weapon damage and that comprimises your test a bit. Plus i am not so sure about ArP and Fury since you get so much AP of STR and every single skill scales of it.
Yup, I know that. The difference was too large IMHO to be blamed soley on the weapon's average damage.
Theoretically
ArP should provide a huge damage increase the higher levels you get. I see 19k bloodthirst (rare, but it happens) when my ArP trinket procs and gets me to the hard cap.
The problem in my case - at least I think so - was having too little AP after reaching the cap (slightly under 6k AP WITH battleshout; ATM I am sitting at over 6300 (another 80 STR incoming)
unbuffed
)
So it was basically less getting mitigated, but less damage being put out that could have been mitigated.
As with all stats, each get better and more important the more of the other ones you have.
Post by
Rubendesmet619
At high end gear gemming ArP as fury is clearly superior to gemming strength.
I had about 6200AP unbuffed in ToC gear, kept the soft ArP cap with grim trol(needed the hit to get capped), I hitted 15k bloodthirsts when I was lucky with procs.
I regemmed full ArP, I was only at about 65% back then, slowly geared up with some ICC pieces and al that.
I'm at 82% atm but stil I'm breaking records with 5k AP unbuffed(yes, that low) and the ArP I have now, 16900 atm is my record.
Using 2x the agilityweapons from ToGC10 as they're simply amazing.
DPS on Saurfang is about 9k with fully ArP gemmed and 85% ArP from food.
Post by
nossy
Are you outfitted with 264 items? If yes then gem armor penetration. Fury Warrior are ridiculously badass with Shadow's Edge.
If you are 232 and below. Gem Str.
Post by
Zakkhar
Are you outfitted with 264 items? If yes then gem armor penetration. Fury Warrior are ridiculously badass with Shadow's Edge.
If you are 232 and below. Gem Str.
Wai wait... shadows edge? How many warriors having it you know? 10?
Everyone can be badass with pre-Legendary endgame weapon.
Post Reply
You are not logged in. Please
log in
to post a reply or
register
if you don't already have an account.