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Why do I defend Thrall so much? this is why
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Post by
Rankkor
For all my dislike of Varian, I can just as well say, he does at least hold up the values of what the alliance have to themselves, and in that gives reason for that faction to survive.
O_O (rubbing eyes) if I didn't saw it myself I wouldn't believe it, xD dude u actually said something nice (sort of) about varian o_O
what's next? addams saying something nice about sylvannas?
How do you figure that? I've seen nothing that states he is.
a guy who can't controll himself is easily controlled by others...... just saying...
in the violet citadel he showed a severe lack of self restraint and auto-controll, this is the kind of attitude that shapes weaklings.
but I have nothing else to add to this thread, sadly we can just wait ATM, and that sucks BIG TIME.
Post by
Adamsm
what's next? addams saying something nice about sylvannas?Never, unless its about a clean kill for her instead of giving her to the families of those who were used as experiments for her Blight.
Post by
Rankkor
what's next? addams saying something nice about sylvannas?Never, unless its about a clean kill for her instead of giving her to the families of those who were used as experiments for her Blight.
never say never dude xD, when the fifth season of Stargate Atlantis began, I HATED woolsey, and yet he proved himself to be quite a badass too during the mid-season.
not to mention when they replaced Aidan with Ronon, and Ronon ended up being 5000 times better.
Post by
Adamsm
what's next? addams saying something nice about sylvannas?Never, unless its about a clean kill for her instead of giving her to the families of those who were used as experiments for her Blight.
never say never dude xD, when the fifth season of Stargate Atlantis began, I HATED woolsey, and yet he proved himself to be quite a badass too during the mid-season.
not to mention when they replaced Aidan with Ronon, and Ronon ended up being 5000 times better.
She could save an entire town of Alliance children.... and I'd still happily bad mouth her.
Post by
Rankkor
we'll see............... you never know what will happen in the horizon.............. the bomb of thrall leaving the title of warchief to garrosh was as unespected as it was sudden, wich proves that in this game NOTHING is set in stone.
today's S-O-B's could be tomorrow's lothars if u get my drift, is like the main motto of the Hashshashin (in the video-game Assassin Creed) :
Laa shay'a waqi'un moutlaq bale kouloun moumkine
("Nothing is true, everything is permitted" in Arabic)
basically, everyone and that means EVERYONE is subject to change at any time, without reason, for the better or worst.
I mean if she sacrificed her life to save varian and velen at the same time (extremely EXTREMELY unlikely, and almost imposible, but then again this is simple hypothesis) would you still bad-mouth her?
Post by
Adamsm
I mean if she sacrificed her life to save varian and velen at the same time (extremely EXTREMELY unlikely, and almost imposible, but then again this is simple hypothesis) would you still bad-mouth her?Yes; one act does not make up for all the suffering she inflicted on the people she sacrificed for her desire to wipe out the Lich King.
Post by
Patty
Garrosh doesn't.
He represents the old horde, the savage, brutal, unthinking horde that wanted to conquer all of azeroth, and wipe out all things in there path. Given, this is what Varian is wanting to do the to the horde too, but Garrosh has no warrent to be this way with the alliance, and he would so clearly sink the horde back down into what it once was in the past to achieve what he wants, a corrupted horde no less if he was offered it.
Although we have already discussed that he represents the Horde before corruption. Much more so than Thrall.
Post by
Rankkor
I mean if she sacrificed her life to save varian and velen at the same time (extremely EXTREMELY unlikely, and almost imposible, but then again this is simple hypothesis) would you still bad-mouth her?Yes; one act does not make up for all the suffering she inflicted on the people she sacrificed for her desire to wipe out the Lich King.
AJA! you fell in my trap >=)
this is why I still regard varian as a racist scum who believes all races of the horde down to the last man woman and child should die (he said so himself on the comics and on the undercity).
just 1 good deed for an orc doesn't delete all the crap he's trown at the orcs since........... ever.......
so far, in the comics, on the UC, on the violet city, and on the argent tournament, he's acted like nothing more than a bigot and a supremacist, just 1 good deed in ICC isn't nearly enough to chance that image i have of him (though I do recognize it was a noble action on his behalf to let saurfang pass)
Post by
Skreeran
I mean if she sacrificed her life to save varian and velen at the same time (extremely EXTREMELY unlikely, and almost imposible, but then again this is simple hypothesis) would you still bad-mouth her?Yes; one act does not make up for all the suffering she inflicted on the people she sacrificed for her desire to wipe out the Lich King.Well, I still find her to be a good character. She and her people know suffering well.
Besides, after what she's been through, I can't really blame her. Arthas essentially broke her mind. If someone who was imprisoned and tortured for years ended up flipping out and deploying a biological weapon to kill her tormentor, yeah, I'd say that she needs to be killed, but I think that her mind would be in such a state that she couldn't really be held accountable for her actions.
She's more of a figure to be pitied, rather than hated, in my opinion.
Post by
Adamsm
I mean if she sacrificed her life to save varian and velen at the same time (extremely EXTREMELY unlikely, and almost imposible, but then again this is simple hypothesis) would you still bad-mouth her?Yes; one act does not make up for all the suffering she inflicted on the people she sacrificed for her desire to wipe out the Lich King.
AJA! you fell in my trap >=)
this is why I still regard varian as a racist scum who believes all races of the horde down to the last man woman and child should die (he said so himself on the comics and on the undercity).
just 1 good deed for an orc doesn't delete all the crap he's trown at the orcs since........... ever.......
so far, in the comics, on the UC, on the violet city, and on the argent tournament, he's acted like nothing more than a bigot and a supremacist, just 1 good deed in ICC isn't nearly enough to chance that image i have of him (though I do recognize it was a noble action on his behalf to let saurfang pass)
Different thing heh; you said Sylvanas died saving them.... Varian is sympathetic to a fellow father; one of Varian's biggest fears is losing Anduin so he reacted as a Father as opposed to a king. It's entirely possible that he won't change, that this was a one deal thing... but I'm hopeful it's not. But, we have seen nothing of the like in Sylvanas.. at all, so I'm fine with my hatred of her.
I mean if she sacrificed her life to save varian and velen at the same time (extremely EXTREMELY unlikely, and almost imposible, but then again this is simple hypothesis) would you still bad-mouth her?Yes; one act does not make up for all the suffering she inflicted on the people she sacrificed for her desire to wipe out the Lich King.Well, I still find her to be a good character. She and her people know suffering well.
Besides, after what she's been through, I can't really blame her. Arthas essentially broke her mind. If someone who was imprisoned and tortured for years ended up flipping out and deploying a biological weapon to kill her tormentor, yeah, I'd say that she needs to be killed, but I think that her mind would be in such a state that she couldn't really be held accountable for her actions.
Then put her down and out of her misery.
Post by
Skreeran
Well, if you wanna come do that, go ahead. I won't stop you.
I'm not letting you wipe out the rest of the Forsaken, though... :P
And I still
like
Sylvanas. She's a good character.
Post by
Adamsm
I never said wipe out the entire Forsaken; as long as it's not the leftover RAS or those who are actively trying to wipe out the living like their leader, I'm fine with them(and by actively I mean going for the total war, slaughtering non-combatants, not those who are defending themselves/fighting in a war).
Post by
Skreeran
Well, there's a lot of people that see Sylvanas as only the beginning, with total annihilation of the Forsaken race as their goal.
Post by
Adamsm
Well, there's a lot of people that see Sylvanas as only the beginning, with total annihilation of the Forsaken race as their goal.
Heh, that isn't me; just like all the other races, there are corrupt members and good ones. I'm not a fan of them overall or in game(hence the reason I have no Forsaken toons), but I'm not calling for them all to be wiped out heh.
Post by
Skreeran
Well, I wouldn't be surprised if Varian tried it. Justin Bartlett already has total genocide of the Horde in mind, and Varian seems to be running along a similar line of thought, judging by what he said in Undercity.
Now, the paladins and Draenei and stuff would not approve of Horde genocide, but genocide of the Forsaken seems like a compromise that they could behind. Paladins already seem to have that in mind, at least besides the Argent Dawn.
See
this quest
, for example.
Post by
Adamsm
Heh, old time quest. I'm still of the belief that while the Tauren, Trolls, Orcs, BE and Gobs could be part of the Army of Light... I just don't see the Forsaken ever being added to it. Though, after the Wrathgate, I'm sure there are members of the Horde itself who are looking questionably at their undead allies; after all, the Horde was hit just as hard, if not harder; I know you see the Forsaken refugees in Orgrimmar, but there were probably other Horde members in Undercity who were cut down by the coup forces.
Post by
Skreeran
Oh, I'm sure. That's what's so unfair about it. How do you think the non-Nazi people in
Dresden
felt? Or the civilians in Hiroshima and Nagasaki? (I hate to make a make
another
comparison to World War II, but I know it well and it's fertile ground for comparisons.)
If you're a Forsaken that isn't evil, you're pretty much SOL. Especially because the Scarlet Crusade, the Scourge, the Alliance, and some among the Horde think that you should be killed for just existing. And who's going to get behind you? The Horde? Well, after the Wrathgate, even they have practically given up on you.
I don't know where I'm going with all this, but it's basically to say that: you want Sylvanas dead, but should the Alliance ever come up to kill her, I doubt they'll stop there. And I think that's just a little bit messed up.
Post by
Adamsm
I don't know where I'm going with all this, but it's basically to say that: you want Sylvanas dead, but should the Alliance ever come up to kill her, I doubt they'll stop there. And I think that's just a little bit messed up.I hate to say it but... that's war; I mean, it's not like the Forsaken would surrender after all.
Post by
Patty
I don't know where I'm going with all this, but it's basically to say that: you want Sylvanas dead, but should the Alliance ever come up to kill her, I doubt they'll stop there. And I think that's just a little bit messed up.I hate to say it but... that's war; I mean, it's not like the Forsaken would surrender after all.
Some might, it's not like they can all be lumped together.
Post by
Adamsm
Some might, it's not like they can all be lumped together.Aye.... but it depends on who their up against; if it's someone who lost family in the Wrathgate, the surrender would probably be ignored and the soldiers would only get slaps on the wrist for disobeying. But I'm sure the Dawn and some of the other neutrals would accept a surrender from the Forsaken, but not as much your standard Human, Dwarf and to a lesser extent the gnomes.
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