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Holy Priests in 3.3 ... Like TBC, Only Worse
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Post by
387103
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Post by
Erethzium
Holy raid healing is fine right now, imo. I was 2nd in meters next to the Resto Druid on Sindragosa25, but that's only because the resto druid coats the raid in Rejuv, so he's got barely any overheal, and he's always healing everyone.
Though, with the T10 nerf in 3.3.3, we won't get to almost relive the TBC days of spamming CoH, anymore.
Post by
182246
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174266
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Post by
cohut
I do not run as holy. But I do see this issue. This is not an issue for raidinguilds which doesnt aim for first kills etc obviously, because then you would just take the player because it doesnt matter much. But when you are in a progressguild most people will take the discpriest instead due to having a very unique way of assisting on tanks, and also on raid. + more buffs for raid( PI renewed hope inspiration (PS) vs inspiration (GS) ).
And with shamans pushing out considerably more hps and druids coating raid holypriest becomes more of a merge between the 2 only with less potential hps. People also wish to get as much dpsclasses into the raid as possible. only with less healing on those abilities and some other stuff. In a raidingguild aiming for first kills etc there will be atleast 1 priest, but chances are he's disc or shadow and not holy.
the only real sollution i see if i was in this position was to (based on what my dualspec is) improve that spec ALOT and make sure raidleaders see how awesum you are in your OS aswell, then atleast you will be able to raid when they dont need a holy priest.
this has nothing to do with holy priests not being awesome, cuz they are, but they are still inferior to other raidhealing classes when it comes to potential hps.
Post by
179128
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Post by
karlusdavius
I think to validate this thread we need to see evidence. Charts and meters. I know Holy Priests in top guilds who are sitting comfortably in the top 3 hps/effective healing charts. Im not really understanding where the problem is.
As Holy you have more tools to work with for different fights. You can run with PoM, CoH, FH, and PoH for burst dmg. Or you can blanket the raid with Renews, PoMs, and random CoHs. You can take over tank healing with FH/GH/PwS etc... Your a versatile healer and your HPS will only be high if you know when and how to use all your spells.
PoM gets canceled by another PoM. One tool gone.
The problem is that (for me) druids and rejuv scales too well in regards to the HP of DPS and Healers. Couple that with WG and we (regardless of how much haste we have) don't have that bigger impact or the majority of it is over heal. Only way to keep up with it is to renew blanket the raid, which isn't what we are designed for.
Come cataclysm, HP pools will be bigger, rejuv won't be ticking for such big amounts and all healers will have to work together to heal somebody up and not top somebody off with one flash.
Post by
MegaVolt
I think you are overreacting. Everytime a class is 2% behind the world is going to end and they are benched in all progression raids and so on. I just don't buy it.
Guardian Spirit alone is a reason to have at least one holy Priest in the raid.
Post by
312967
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Post by
Erethzium
Well if I remember correctly, Priest..."Jack of all trades, master of none". They're indeed pretty much a blend of everything.
Though they've got some unique healing spells like PoH and CoH. What other class can instantly heal a group for 7-8k, and at the same time, another 6 raid members for 5k? (PoH + CoH right at the end of PoH cast) Using this combination pretty much nullify's LK's Infest, or Gormok's stomp (If all the melee are in the same group(s).)
IMO Holy may not have insane HPS, or meter-topping heals, but they have a hell of a burst healing capacity. Other healers must have been buffed or something, because I remember playing in 3.0, and in Naxx10/25, I'd always top the healing meters on just about every fight.
Post by
SeaOfHoles
But if we learned anything from EQ or DAOC, people want masters. Fights aren't "random" enough to warrant a class that can fill all roles.
Has WOW done it better than EQ or DAOC? Yes. Does it still need work? Yes.
Post by
MegaVolt
But if we learned anything from EQ or DAOC, people want masters. Fights aren't "random" enough to warrant a class that can fill all roles.
Has WOW done it better than EQ or DAOC? Yes. Does it still need work? Yes.
You will love Guild Wars. Everyone is a hybrid there ;)
Post by
TalonX
IMO Holy may not have insane HPS, or meter-topping heals, but they have a hell of a burst healing capacity. Other healers must have been buffed or something, because I remember
playing in 3.0
, and in Naxx10/25, I'd always top the healing meters on just about every fight.
Welcome to 3.3 those days are gone. the problem with ICC compared to like Uld is that there are very few burst healing moments at least not on the lvl of XT-002, Hodir, Ignis type fights. If there is a major amount of AoE it's constant and pretty easily covered by druids but if there is a small amount of burst and your shammies or druids aren't all that skilled the person will probable die and that's where I fine my niche in my guild.
A skilled player is still a skilled player but unfortunately our healing spells have become bow and arrows compared to the shotguns and high powered sniper rifles of other healers
and hell this isn't the only place I've seen a
post
like this so if you don't think that there is a game design problem with holy atm then please open your eyes. I love holy I will always play holy no matter what condition we are in.
Post by
422346
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179128
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Post by
MegaVolt
and hell this isn't the only place I've seen a
post
like this so if you don't think that there is a game design problem with holy atm then please open your eyes. I love holy I will always play holy no matter what condition we are in.
Just because people QQ a lot doesn't mean a class is underpowered.
If holy Priests get the same throughput as Druids while retaining their burst heals (Druids don't have anything like PoH) and keeping their awesome cooldowns (Druids don't have anything like Guardian Spirit) then they would be overpowered.
Having a slightly lower throughput but awesome cooldowns and burst heals instead is perfectly fine. If anything then the current ICC encounters are to blame since they don't have the kind of burst anymore that dominated Ulduar so a Priest can't show what he really can do.
The main problem I see for Priests right now is the 4t10 set bonus. While Druids and Shamans get an easy 10% boost to their throughput from it a holy Priest using Renew based healing will only see an increase of about 2%. Bringing the set bonus on par with what other classes get should fix the problem.
@YourEpicPenance:
5k HPS is really nothing on that fight. 7k is acceptable but still not really impressive. Look here for how it's done:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/players/Icecrown_Citadel/Blood-Queen_Lana%27thel/25N/Holy_Priest/
http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/players/Icecrown_Citadel/Blood-Queen_Lana%27thel/25N/Discipline_Priest/
Also check the spell composition. Most of them are using a Renew based style but there is also the odd PoH healer in there.
Post by
cloudp
Hm... to be honest, looking at Mega's lists:
Top Holy Priest on BQL: 11066 HPS
Place where <Spec> get that value:
Resto(Shaman): 68th
Resto(Druid): 200+ (WoL doesn't have trees below that value there)
Discipline: 1st
Holy(Paladin): 198th
Analysing that... well... you can see there's a significant discrepancy.
However, one fight shouldn't be enough to judge.
Post by
JaguarZ
What it comes down to is progression raids will take the best classes for the situations they need.
On MT/OT heals that's a pally, they are undisputed single / duo target healing kings.
On raid that's Shaman and Druid.
Holy priests have a wide arsenal to choose from but they can't out heal the kings of raid heal or the kings of MT/OT heal simply because they're designed to be relatively good at both so they're the best at neither.
There simply isn't a spot for holy priests because the raid will be taking the BEST raid healers they have and the BEST MT/OT healer they have. Second best at both won't go.
As the saying goes, Second is the first loser.
I'm very unhappy with how things have turned out for holy priests.
Hopefully things will change when spell choice and efficiency of action matter more in Cataclysm. It's been long enough waiting for a solution, imo.
Post by
MegaVolt
There simply isn't a spot for holy priests because the raid will be taking the BEST raid healers they have and the BEST MT/OT healer they have. Second best at both won't go.
Priests are the BEST for providing emergency cooldowns. Pain Suppression makes Festergut so much easier. Guardian Spirit enables the Paladins to pump so much health into the tank. Nothing a Shaman or Druid has can compare to that.
Stop just looking at the meter. It's as stupid as DK tanks saying they are underpowered because they have a bit less passive damage reduction than other classes. They got ridiculously awesome cooldowns to compensate. It's the same with Priests: Cooldowns make encounters so much easier and are reason enough to bring a Priest.
Most of the time a healer won't operate at max throughput anyway. Priests having 2k or even 3k less raw throughput than Druids isn't a big deal when both are at around 8k effective healing (raw throughput 15k for Druids, 12k for Priests or something like that). You'll never run into a situation were taking a Druid over a Priest will enable you to bring one less healer. But you will very often have encounters in which Pain Suppression or Guardian Spirit are much more valuable than a bit higher healing throughput.
Post by
Erethzium
Talked to someone from PTR, apparently they buffed the 4pc again, now it's:
+5% to PW:S, and +10% to CoH
Which isn't as good as the current, but meh, still somewhat enough for me to have a reason to go for the 4pc. Why the PW:S isn't 10% as well is beyond me. Incoming Disc QQ, I guess?
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