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Holy Priests in 3.3 ... Like TBC, Only Worse
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Post by
470168
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Post by
karlusdavius
I finally have some time chine in here.
Each class, regardless of spec or role, should be able to do better things (Tank, Healer, DPS) the more gear you get and the more you
understand them.
Rotations are true for DPS. the better you are at getting them spot on, the more DPS you will do. True fact. Nobody denies this. However, what happens when you give a class/role that have, when thier couterparts don't, a rotation?
Tanks - Paladin vs Warrior
If you have been over to the warrior forums, MMO or the official forums laterly, there have been an abundance of blue posts and discussion about paladin and warrior tanking. It's a know fact that you have a kind of "Priority list" for a warrior. SS when it's up, Dev to fill etc etc. Many tanks do this amazingly well as pull a very nice amount of threat, however if you give the opposite side a "rotation", you see the tanks DPS number gap start to increase. There is no wrong decision to make in a rotiation. Palaidns maximize thier threat each and every time. Warriors have the job of desicion making and can choose that wrong button to push or spam it for that 0.4 seconds until it comes off CD.
Healers - Druids vs Priests
Same for these guys. Druids have the 5 x Rejuv, 1 x Wild Growth. Not really much room for error there. See a target who is low then you replace a rejuv with a Swiftmend. Priests however, have the priority list. 3 stacks of serendipity can increase our output qwhen we have it or diminish it when we don't. CoH doesn't hit that hard and we have had our ability to refresh it taken away. Renew? Flash? The way we are built means that while we can put out impressive numbers, we can't do it consistantly. Priests are forced into the renew way of healing due to the power of a druids consistant and continual healing. All thanks to a rotation.
Yes, healing spells are scaling badly, but you can't always blame bad scaling. Rotations make things easier. It's only now that we are really starting to see the difference.
COD:MW2 is amazing
Peace out.
Post by
387103
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Post by
Panik8
Technically, Discipline Priests are at least as effective as Resto Shamans, so GC didn't break his promise.
Furthermore, according to guildprogress.com, only 3 guilds have killed the Lich King, on Heroic 25, those would be "Ensidia", "For the Horde" and "Paragon".
Ensidia runs with 2 Holy Pallies, 2 Resto Druids, 1 Disc Priest and 1 Resto Shammy.
For The Horde runs with 2 Holy Pallies, 1 Resto Druid, 1 Disc Priest, 1 Holy Priest and 1 Resto Shammy.
Paragon runs with 2 Holy Pallies, 1 Resto Druid, 1 Disc Priest, 1 Holy Priest and 1 Resto Shammy.
So, out of 3 guilds who cleared ICC-25 on Heroic, 2 of them had a Holy Priest... If anything, Holy Pallies are the problem, they're the class that's sticking out as being better represented than any other.
Maybe the Raid Leaders on your realm would rather copy Ensidia's raid composition and bring the class, rather than the player..., but there has to be a way for you to prove your worth, if you consider yourself as a better healer than the 2nd Resto Shaman that's technically taking "your" spot in the raid, no offense, but maybe he's simply better than you, somehow?
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387103
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303152
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Post by
Panik8
So basically THE major problem is that Priests are not the best(by a huge margin) in any one thing. OK, I see the problem...
That, I agree with at 100%. Well, as long as we're talking about Holy Priests, anyways, Disc is obviously the best mitigator around. However, there is nothing Holy Priests can do that other Healers can't do better. Single-target healing isn't as efficient as a Paladin's, HoTs aren't as various and numerous as a Druid's, AoE healing has decent potential, but the CD on CoH and PoH's longer cast time and "un-intelligent" mechanic can't compete with a Shaman's Chain Heals...
If anything, they could remove CoH's CD, ... but an instant AoE intelligent heal that can target 6 people sounds a bit too OP, every raid would simply have 5-6 Holy Priests stacked on top of everyone else spamming CoH until the boss would die, imho... (Well, it'd get nerfed or something, to compensate, probably.)
Anyhow, it's not that we don't have potential for high HPS, I remember doing ~9-10k HPS on Twin Valkyrs 25, a good while ago, back when I was in 232-245 gear, but, sadly, that only worked on that fight (and probably with the healer compo we had then, no Druid ftw...), since overhealing was closer to 0 than it ever was or ever will be again..., so while we definately have the potential for high numbers, the way our spells work simply can't compare/compete with other classes' signature heals...
That being said, I'm one that believes in variety, so I was really pleased to notice 2/3 of the guilds I mentionned actually used at least one of every Healer spec, I really think that's the way to go and how Blizzard intended 25 mans to be, sadly, Ensidia has such a good reputation, everyone copies them, although, you mentionned your Raid actually getting the job done when they replaced Priests with Shamans, so we can't blame your RL or pretend he's simply copying Ensidia's setup, since he probably based his opinion on the results he had when doing that change.
@Sebalas: Are you sure about those numbers? I do over 3k HPS constantly, as Disc, without taking Mitigation (PW:S, DA) into consideration...?
Post by
Pachuca
If anything, PoM should work like Chain Heal and jump to whoever is in range that has the lowest HP at the time it procs off its original target...
But that is how it works.
Post by
Panik8
If anything, PoM should work like Chain Heal and jump to whoever is in range that has the lowest HP at the time it procs off its original target...
But that is how it works.
My bad, seems you're right, although I had a bit of trouble finding a reliable source, tankspot's Priest guides mentions...
Prayer of Mending is an amazing spell that no other class currently has an equivalent to. Once used on a target, it'll take effect once that target takes damage and
after healing it, will bounce to another raid member in range that currently has the lowest health
. Prayer of Mending has 5 charges and will bounce until either its charges run out or the current target does not take damage within thirty seconds. it's on a 10-second cooldown and should be used on cooldown on a tank or someone else that will predictably take frequent damage. With average gear, it heals for about 4000 on a non-crit and 6000+ on a crit.
I simply cast it on either tank on every CD and let it do its thing, so I never really noticed... I generally only pay attention to make sure I'm not casting a PoM on someone that already has one from another Priest.
In any case, that means that as soon as you got 2 Priests healing the same raid, they should see a decrease in their PoM's efficiency, since any 2 PoMs proccing at the exact same time will be jumping to the same target by default, but won't stack..., assuming said target is in range of both PoMs' original targets, right?
Anyhow, even if it jumps to the lowest-health target, nothing ensures said "new" target will still require healing once it procs off him, so it still can't compare to a Shaman's Chain Heal, in terms of short-term efficiency/utility.
I edited/corrected my other post... Thank you.
I learned something today, now I can go back to sleep and be happy about my day, yay! :P
Post by
518371
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Post by
Pachuca
The only issue with PoM not being "smart" is if more than one PoM bounces to the same target: only one of them will proc on the next hit, while the other gets deleted.
If they somehow made it so that, for example, 2 PoMs were thrown on 2 different targets and both proc at the same time, somehow they would "know" not to bounce to the same secondary target (or any other target somewhere down the line). Although, maybe this is already the case?
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303152
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518371
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Post by
Paolo
Chakra.
If it's done well, it will provide the holy priest's "spell-weaving" that Blizzards likes. I like it too...the haste from BT was supposed to be a discipline priest's weave, at least until they added Soul Warding and largely killed our direct heals. Serendipity was supposed to be the holy priest's weave, but the rise of the renew-spam playstyle kind of killed that too. The T10 set bonus failed in its attempt to revive Flash Heal.
These examples show that Blizzard is trying to create dynamic playstyles. The fact that they are both failing isn't really a huge concern to me; we're deep into an expansion that suffers from gear inflation. (We are two gear tiers higher than Blizz had initially planned.)
I'm sure we'll get interlocking/weaving brought back intelligently. Blizzard is opposed to the one-spell-spam playstyle. Even though many classes have been reduced to that style of late, it's an aberration, a function of the gear inflation (and a few design mistakes made along the way). With the huge reset button that is Cata, I have no doubt they'll find a way to reinstate the weave.
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167046
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387103
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