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Gearscore = Kill me now
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Post by
Pwntiff
Yeah, that's what I plan on doing. I'm just alittle miffed cause I enjoy raiding :)
As do I, but I prefer raiding with at least two of my friends, and one quit, two are on hiatus, and one is raiding with his guild that I don't want to join, despite the fact I probably could on my own merits. :P
Post by
621479
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
156401
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Post by
619897
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Post by
obiwaynekenobi
Bottom line, start your own raids, or conform to other people's standards. Who are you to question other people and what requirements they set, and who to accept into their raids?
When people are outright retarded about it, then
yes
we have the right to question it and call them out for being morons. Starting a raid doesn't give you the right to be a clueless retard who imposes ridiculous restrictions, no matter what the GS/Achieve baddies who want to be carried seem to think.
Post by
239153
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
obiwaynekenobi
Oh, and as a final point to consider:
For those who want to ban the addon, do you also want sites like wow-heroes, and even the goddamn Armory(!) banned? Because going to a site like that, assessing someones rough average ilvl, and making a judgement on how good they are is no different. Its exactly what was done before. Its also no different to asking for 'come eventide for gearcheck', and using the inspect tool. The fault lies with the community, not a simple addon.
Except that most people don't USE the inspect tool, they just ask for the
number
and base everything off of that. Also, most people aren't even aware that GS itself lists the recommended score for content, and you STILL see idiots wanting you to have 5.5K for ICC10 (GS addon says 4.7k, and 5.1k for ICC25) or worse, ToC10 (4K GS, 4.5K for 25). The fault lies with the community, I agree 100%, but the fault also lies with an addon that lists the arbitrary number when you hover over someone's toon, so that the number is all that matters not your actual gear.
Post by
44284
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Maulee
Guess what? According to
www.wtfismygearscore.com
(which I had to use to find out my gs, since I dont have the addon), in my dps gear I have just over 5.7k GS. And I do 10-11k dps in icc25, and am often one of the top 3 on damage done in pugs. In my tank gear I have an even higher GS (not sure what it is, I just know I have a higher average ilvl), and I tend to out-threat all the other tanks, and the healers have no problems healing me. In heroics I chainpull like crazy, never lose aggro, and dont stress the healer.
From this I can tell you without a doubt that GS=skill. Because this is exactly as anecdotal and irrelevant as every other post here claiming how a low gs player outperformed a high gs player. There certainly
IS
a
correlation
between gearscore and skill, and no amount of venting will change that fact. All the posts you see in threads like these are merely what are called
outliers
, and this is because no-one posts about the people who perform adequately to their gear, because that is not note-worthy.
Obviously, GS = skill is nonsense. However, I believe that that K*GS +Z = Skill, where K is a constant and Z is a symmetrical random noise variable, would be an accurate model (although finding a way to literally quantify skill would be impossible, but I hope you get the idea).
Oh, and as a final point to consider:
For those who want to ban the addon, do you also want sites like wow-heroes, and even the goddamn Armory(!) banned? Because going to a site like that, assessing someones rough average ilvl, and making a judgement on how good they are is no different. Its exactly what was done before. Its also no different to asking for 'come eventide for gearcheck', and using the inspect tool. The fault lies with the community, not a simple addon.
Good post. I appreciate a rational person's point of view. You cannot ignore or overstate the impact this has on people at the social level. From my perspective, I am a person who doesn't play consistently. I take months off and resub when I have the time. Coming back to this community,
I am reduced to a number
because most of my friends have moved on to other things. I've made some new friends, but now people default to gear score rather than who you are as a person or a player. So trying to integrate back into the community for me has been a struggle, and this addon is largely responsible for the culture I find myself trying to deal with. wow-heroes is a useful tool for guilds to use because it gives you more information than just a raw, arbitrary number for people to use as a standard.
My GS is only 4.9k and I routinely haul between 5-6k dps on boss fights in heroics and raids, and usually account for 35-40% of total group damage in heroics. I was in DTK with a 5.7k GS elemental shammy who pulled 2-3k tops at any point. I'm a mut rogue still wearing some blues FFS How did I end up carrying that group?
Still no ICC invites though because I'm just a 4k GS scrub who obviously needs to be carried. lol
But I know for a fact I could at least be adequate to clear lower spire, without the buff, because I was in a guild that cleared it when it was new before I took time off for school. People talk about their DPS in ICC with a 25% buff and then judge someone
else
based on their GS without even giving them a chance because they don't over gear the content by a wide margin. It's ridiculous. I know there are smart people out there but trying to find them these days is like herding cats because of all the people running around in purples these days who heretofore wouldn't have been able to sneeze on an epic, let alone run a raid.
So, I concur with your conclusion that the problem lies with the community and not the addon, however I will say that Blizzard has done more things than just ignore the impact of this addon that have eroded the value of social skills within this community, such as cross server everything, and given people even more incentive to make this community more and more toxic with each patch.
Post by
cloudp
Obviously, GS = skill is nonsense. However, I believe that that K*GS +Z = Skill, where K is a constant and Z is a symmetrical random noise variable, would be an accurate model (although finding a way to literally quantify skill would be impossible, but I hope you get the idea).
I wouldn't go like that.
Skill = Potential from player knowledge * Potential from gear.
Which breaks into:
Potential from player knowledge=Talent Specialization + Stat awareness, reflected on gemming, enchants and gear.
Potential from gear is measured from 0 to 1. If your gear is correct for your spec, it's value is 1. If no stat is right, it is 0. if some stats are, some aren't, it's an intermediate value (which will limit your skill level, logically)
GS = Literally nothing. It doesn't account for a player's spec. Nor his gemming options. Or enchants. I could be a spellpower deathknight and have a 5.7k GS. The addon would still show me as 5.7k, even if I was using mp5 plate. How would GS be any kind of meter to that? This is obviously an extreme case that won't happen (A DK won't get into many guilds or pugs that can get him a 5.7k GS wearing spellpower items...). GS functions on a completelly false assumption - that your ilvl 251+ gear is correctly gemmed, enchanted, that your rotation is perfect, and that you mastered your class. It assumes immediatelly that potential from gear=1. That may be true - or not.
Post by
obiwaynekenobi
I don't know who you think you are thinking you can question people on their standards.
So we should all just sit back and let the idiots take over the game with outright ridiculous standards. I see. Thanks for enlightening me.
Post by
567203
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rilgon
Who are you to question other people and what requirements they set, and who to accept into their raids?
When the standards are completely unreasonable for the content that's being run, they have no validity.
Expecting ICC25-level gear for ToC10 is completely and unerringly retarded.
Post by
Rilgon
Who are you to question other people and what requirements they set, and who to accept into their raids?
When the standards are completely unreasonable for the content that's being run, they have no validity.
Expecting ICC25-level gear for ToC10 is completely and unerringly retarded.
If they are getting the 9/24 people they want, then you have no validity in QQ'ing about it.
When it's denying people that are otherwise appropriately geared for the instance because the leader wants to be carried, I absolutely have validity calling them out on it.
Edit: Irony - my captcha was
sane perspective
.
Post by
106394
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
skumbananer
Toc10n Pugs are the worst. Toc10n was used to be done with people in half t7 half t8-quality gear. Now frost badge gear mixed with toc25/icc10-drops are far too low. Heck, in full tank gear, i have 39k unbuffed, gear from triumph badges/icc10/toc, defense capped and then some, decent avoidance, and got "Tanks hp and gs is a bit low"...for weekly Anub Re´hkan must die...as the offtank.
Post by
Rilgon
And the people that are denied the raids should be entitled to join the raid because...............
Because if they meet basic standards of gear necessary to run the raid (with considerations given to lower-ilvl gear that is amazing), and they've never proven to be bad players, there is no reason why they should be denied aside from raid composition concerns.
Period.
Post by
567203
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
sargasso
What annoys me far more than a raid having a minimum gs is people moaning about it. Yes some people are nazi types demanding unreasonable gearscores for a particular raid, or such like. That just means there are idiots in the game. Gearscore is just a tool/benchmark.
I find it highly entertaining I confess. :)
Aside: I am easily amused I guess.
Post by
Rilgon
Gearscore is just a tool/benchmark.
A very heavily flawed tool, if that. I find calling it a tool is disingenuous, because tools tend to be useful.
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