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Draenei Discussion
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Post by
Skreeran
I'm kinda @#$%ed at the titans. According to Algalon, they're apparently responsible for taking billions, if not trillions of lives, more than Nazis and Communism put together.
"I didn't realize that you guys didn't like that..." isn't an acceptable answer to me. They know about self-preservation.
"We made you, so suck it up..." isn't an acceptable answer either. That's authoritarianism.
Post by
FarseerLolotea
Warning: TVTropes!
I was going to link to "The Gods Must Be Lazy." However, that seems to be a better explanation for why demons go out and cause trouble, while
angel-equivalents
have mortals do their fighting for them.
So...I think
this
is more appropriate to the situation with the Titans.
Post by
FarseerLolotea
This hasn't been touched in four days? Outrage!
So...again, what's everyone think of my theory on the "S gene?" Or my further theories on the evolution of the species?
Post by
Skreeran
I don't really have any thoughts on the S gene. It makes sense, I suppose, but I don't really have any thoughts on it... :P
I was thinking though, Braevia mentioned the level of prehensility (if that's a word) of Draenei tails. It seems to me that males have longer, more muscular tails, while females tend to have more limp tails (to the collective disappointment of lesyay fanboys everywhere).
Post by
FarseerLolotea
I was thinking though, Braevia mentioned the level of prehensility (if that's a word) of Draenei tails. It seems to me that males have longer, more muscular tails, while females tend to have more limp tails (to the collective disappointment of lesyay fanboys everywhere).The female tails don't seem "limp" to me. In fact, they seem fairly rigid—just curled inward, towards their legs, rather than outward and away from the body like those of the males. There's probably somewhat more flexibility than is rendered in-game, but I'd guess that they're probably not prehensile.
Post by
Orranis
I think the Titans could be viewed as good guys with a more "grand scheme" look at morality. Judging by the fact they're Gods, and have created so much life, they value each individual life less than we would. Kind of like how insects with hundreds of eggs don't care as much if one dies. They're more scared of Old God's/Demons getting loose and destroying the universe as a whole then a couple measly mortals.
Post by
Skreeran
Hmm... I suppose you could be right. I just looked closer at
their models
and it appears that they do have a certain degree of rigidity to them.
Funny, I always remembered them as being practically limp.
Still, I doubt that they have the same control as the males. Males have far more muscular tails.
Edit: @Orranis: Perhaps, but as an individual mortal, I reserve the right to defend my individual mortal life, even against my creators.
Post by
Orranis
Edit: @Orranis: Perhaps, but as an individual mortal, I reserve the right to defend my life individual mortal life, even against my creators.
That's selfish. Think about the trillions more that might be destroyed if the Old God's escaped.
Post by
Skreeran
Edit: @Orranis: Perhaps, but as an individual mortal, I reserve the right to defend my life individual mortal life, even against my creators.
That's selfish. Think about the trillions more that might be destroyed if the Old God's escaped.I really think that should be up to me to decide, not the Titans.
Post by
FarseerLolotea
Still, I doubt that they have the same control as the males. Males have far more muscular tails.I'd guess that females might be able to swat someone with their tails hard enough to sting. Males could swat someone hard enough to leave a welt.
Post by
Orranis
Edit: @Orranis: Perhaps, but as an individual mortal, I reserve the right to defend my life individual mortal life, even against my creators.
That's selfish. Think about the trillions more that might be destroyed if the Old God's escaped.I really think that should be up to me to decide, not the Titans.
They don't give a crap, they know they're doing the right thing. That would be obstruction of justice.
Post by
Adamsm
Edit: @Orranis: Perhaps, but as an individual mortal, I reserve the right to defend my life individual mortal life, even against my creators.
That's selfish. Think about the trillions more that might be destroyed if the Old God's escaped.I really think that should be up to me to decide, not the Titans.
Technically, the Draenei already proved they have free well; otherwise 2/3rd's of the race wouldn't be the Man'ari Eredar.
Post by
Orranis
Edit: @Orranis: Perhaps, but as an individual mortal, I reserve the right to defend my life individual mortal life, even against my creators.
That's selfish. Think about the trillions more that might be destroyed if the Old God's escaped.I really think that should be up to me to decide, not the Titans.
Technically, the Draenei already proved they have free well; otherwise 2/3rd's of the race wouldn't be the Man'ari Eredar.
And if it weren't for the Man'ari Eredar, thousands of Orcs and Humans etc. wouldn't have died. Btw, WTF is the Pantheon actually doing? Aggramar hasn't done crap. At least Sargeras did something...
Post by
Skreeran
Edit: @Orranis: Perhaps, but as an individual mortal, I reserve the right to defend my life individual mortal life, even against my creators.
That's selfish. Think about the trillions more that might be destroyed if the Old God's escaped.I really think that should be up to me to decide, not the Titans.
They don't give a crap, they know they're doing the right thing. That would be obstruction of justice.Hey, all that one mortal can realistically be expected to truly care about is himself and his family. If I have to fight the Titans or the Old Gods to keep my own life, or the lives of those I value, I'll do it, because I do not want to die. You cannot expect me to just give up my life because the Titans say so.
They didn't really give any chance to the other "millions and millions" or people that they killed because they decided the math was better one way or another.
According to Algalon, the reason that they found it acceptable to kill so many is because they didn't realize that the people valued their lives, and that now that he knows how much we love life, he spares us.
Poor excuse, in my opinion. Ignorance is never a good excuse. I don't support the Titans, nor do I support sheeplike submission to their authoritarian "we're smarter than you, so just die quietly" methods.
Remind me why the hell I'm going to have to join a
cult
to one of them in Cata?
Post by
Adamsm
Edit: @Orranis: Perhaps, but as an individual mortal, I reserve the right to defend my life individual mortal life, even against my creators.
That's selfish. Think about the trillions more that might be destroyed if the Old God's escaped.I really think that should be up to me to decide, not the Titans.
Technically, the Draenei already proved they have free well; otherwise 2/3rd's of the race wouldn't be the Man'ari Eredar.
And if it weren't for the Man'ari Eredar, thousands of Orcs and Humans etc. wouldn't have died. Btw, WTF is the Pantheon actually doing? Aggramar hasn't done crap. At least Sargeras did something...
Cleaning up after Sargeras mess..... But beyond that, the Pantheon isn't here to hold our hands, they created living beings with free will as part of them, so that's how it is.
Post by
Orranis
Edit: @Orranis: Perhaps, but as an individual mortal, I reserve the right to defend my life individual mortal life, even against my creators.
That's selfish. Think about the trillions more that might be destroyed if the Old God's escaped.I really think that should be up to me to decide, not the Titans.
They don't give a crap, they know they're doing the right thing. That would be obstruction of justice.Hey, all that one mortal can realistically be expected to truly care about is himself and his family. If I have to fight the Titans or the Old Gods to keep my own life, or the lives of those I value, I'll do it, because I do not want to die. You cannot expect me to just give up my life because the Titans say so. No, but you have no choice in matter. Your worlds corrupt, you go by by. Good luck fighting for it.
They didn't really give any chance to the other "millions and millions" or people that they killed because they decided the math was better one way or another.
So? Not to mention that those were 'perfect creations' and probably were good with being killed for the greater good
According to Algalon, the reason that they found it acceptable to kill so many is because they didn't realize that the people valued their lives, and that now that he knows how much we love life, he spares us.He's taken your side of the argument, the rest have taken mine.
Poor excuse, in my opinion. Ignorance is never a good excuse. I don't support the Titans, nor do I support sheeplike submission to their authoritarian "we're smarter than you, so just die quietly" methods.
Remind me why the hell I'm going to have to join a
cult
to one of them in Cata?
Fire and Brimstone! Eternal suffering! Oh no, wrong fantasy.
Post by
FarseerLolotea
Can't we just agree that the Pantheon are beginning to reek of
Jerkass Gods
and attempt to get this thing back on topic before it gets locked? (And to avoid quote pyramids, while we're at it.)
Hey, Adams...you seem to have opinions in regards to draenei. What do you think of the
ideas
that Fox and I were coming up with earlier?
Post by
Orranis
Can't we just agree that the Pantheon are beginning to reek of
Jerkass Gods
and attempt to get this thing back on topic before it gets locked? (And to avoid quote pyramids, while we're at it.)
That's Subjective. From an Objective look, they seem to be perfectly just.
Post by
Skreeran
No, but you have no choice in matter. Your worlds corrupt, you go by by. Good luck fighting for it.I'll do my best.
We did beat Algalon, after all. Staved of reorigination, and I support that.
So? Not to mention that those were 'perfect creations' and probably were good with being killed for the greater goodWe'll never know. The Titans didn't care to ask.
He's taken your side of the argument, the rest have taken mine.Well, I guess we're at opposition then. Which is my whole point. I don't see the Titans as benevolent creators. I see them as authoritarian overlords that believe they know what's best and would quite easily just decide to kill us all if they believed it would have a positive net impact.
Fire and Brimstone! Eternal suffering! Oh no, wrong fantasy.Heh.
Don't get me wrong, I agree with you on many philosophical points, but I don't care who it is, you can't just kill me and my family without asking me. If I am to be sacrificed for the greater good, I'd like some input on the matter. I enjoy living. I want to continue living for as long as possible. If that means staring down the Pantheon, so be it. We've beaten Kil'Jaeden, Archimonde, two old gods (as far as we know), Algalon, and have repelled Sargeras. We're not just helpless babies on the cosmic scale (at least in Warcraft, throughout this whole discussion I've kept my real life thoughts out of this).
Odds aren't looking good when taking on the Pantheon, but when the alternative is to just go quietly into nonexistence, I'll take whatever options I have.
Edit: That's Subjective. From an Objective look, they seem to be perfectly just.Ultimately, the subjective perspective is all that matters to me.
Post by
Adamsm
They are interesting, but I'm still not sold on the idea that the Draenei used crystal tech as part of the Eredar beyond the 7 Ata'mai crystals... and even then, there's references to those being Naaru items they seeded on the planet heh.
But yeah, the hooves would make sense, they are more like high altitude animal's feet then something from the lowlands(compare a cow hoof to a goat or ram's). The tail's... who knows with that heh. The horns are probably just leftovers from when they were evolving, growing smaller over time; compare one of the in-game Man'ari females to a Draenei. Tendrils and crests on the males might end up just being there for looks.
As for the evolution heh, that's hard to tell; look at Velen, he's been alive for 40 thousand years(possibly), so who knows long they were evolving before that point.
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