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Leap of Faith.
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Post by
erdos1913
My initial reaction to this is "meh". Always seems like priests get some kind of weird, semi-useful ability. Holy Nova used to be at the bottom of the tree and was laughed at, Circle of Healing was roundly dismissed for most of BC, Mass Dispel was a big fat joke, Divine Hymn left most of us scratching our heads, and Lightwell! Good lord, don't get me started on Lightwell. They've changed most of them now, but it's been frustrating.
In thinking about it a little bit more, I just don't like it at all. Let's take the 3 examples Blizzard gave for using this spell:
1. To help rescue fellow players who have pulled aggro
So, I'm going to pull someone towards me who has all the aggro? Really? And what do you suppose comes along with them? Look! It's all the mean, nasty mobs! Who cleave and whirlwind! Why in the hell would I ever want to do this? Besides, this would only be possible in a 5-man where the distance between players is not that great to matter. You pull aggro in a raid and you get one-shotted.
2. To help players that are being focused on in PvP
Ok, I can see this being useful. I don't PvP enough to care, but I can see it. Only problem I see here is if they are being focused, they're going to be dead too quick for me to grab them.
3. To help players who just can't seem to get out of the fire in time
Yeah, but I usually just heal through the damage. I'm
a healer
. My first and best instinct is always to cast a heal, not grip them over to me. I've got other things to worry about (like, am
I
standing in the fire?) I'm focusing on the health bars, not where people are
standing
. And if they die anyways, maybe they deserve to.
Post by
375421
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Paolo
I would be very surprised if it didn't come with a significant aggro reducer. It wouldn't be the first third-party aggro adjustment (see Pain Suppression, Vigilance). Given Blizzard's own example, and the fact that it's a healer's tool (and not a tank ability)... it's kind of obvious that it would have to come with some threat adjustment.
DPS who don't get out of the fire are among the most polarizing people in the game. If you want to create a long heated thread that goes nowhere, you have two choices: "Everyone runs back after a wipe; I don't rez," or "DPS who stand in the fire get one heal from me; no second chances." The fact is that most people who play this game are bad... it's just the way it is. If you play with good people, you hopefully won't need to yoink bad dps very often. If you play with average people, you just have to suck it up and help out any way you can.
Post by
318206
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Post by
91278
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Post by
OscarDivine
Damnit Sinespe, you beat me to the draw. I, too, think that Life Grip could be a great solution to several problems in raids. Even looking back at raids in the past:
Ulduar:
Can you pull someone out of the Stone Grip of Kologarn? Or Slag Pot from Ignis even?
On General Vezax, pull a friendly healer into your mana regen pool who needs it fast
Any instance you can pull someone out of fire or a big bad AoE, namely Iron Council, Razorscale, Auriaya, etc.
ToC:
If you have Burning Bile... Get that player with Paralytic toxin who didn't quite make it in time.
Endless possiblities during the Faction Champs fight.
Pull a player to the portals with you during the Twins fight.
On Anub, you can save your offtank from getting too many stacks from the mini-critters if he gets aggro by accident. Or pull the guy being pursued across an ice patch so they can avoid the slowing effect.
ICC has lots of possibilities too, but I think I've made my point. There are lots of ways you can use this ability toward your advantage in raids.
Post by
179389
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
OscarDivine
I'm trying to find a reason to like this spell, but honestly I just don't see it.
It's like Body and Soul, a viable playstyle choice, except it's our only choice for our crowning spell :p
Honestly I think it'd make an interesting talent choice, but as our level 85 spell, it falls short of the bar set by Spiritwalker's Grace and Demon Soul.
The difference is that I don't believe it'll be a talent. Based on the language, it looks like a spell all priests will have at lvl 85 that will probably come from the trainer. I think it'll have great novelty uses, but I'm curious to see what the end-result of this spells potential will be. I have to expect changes to it by the time it goes live, if it even makes it!
Post by
179389
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Braevia
I can't believe what I'm hearing. I saw the changes this morning on WoW.com, and came here bouncing with joy to discuss how AWESOME the new Cataclysm Priest changes are, ESPECIALLY Lifegrip. And most of you think it's "meh"?
There is no part of this spell that is not awesome. Pulling a slow rogue out of the fire? WIN.
Tank loses aggro, mobs all over you? LIFEGRIP FTW. Pull that Pally to you, let him consecrate.
Shaman blows your buddy off a cliff? Lifegrip him back.
Jump off a cliff yourself? Lifegrip a pal, then cast levitate and /laugh.
Tank runs off ahead of you in a dungeon while you're drinking? Lifegrip him.
The only downside to this spell is that amusing myself with it is liable to get me /gkicked.
Post by
179389
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
OscarDivine
That's the point I was making Oscar.
1) It shouldn't be our level 85 base spell.
edit: Because it's not something that most every priest of any spec would find useful.
Locks get a variable (based on the pet) 20 second buff.
Shaman get a 10s reprieve from a major class weakness of all specs.
Priests get a... well it might be useful in very specific situations usually where someone has messed up royally spell.
2) It would make an interesting talent.
Ahh, I see what you're saying now. Yeah, that I can agree with you on. I also find it to be a very situational spell. It could be fun though. Your comparison to other classes' lvl 85 spells does open my eyes, however, because I didn't even bother to look at their changes yet. Now, I am a bit miffed.
Post by
erdos1913
@ignayshus : yup, yup and yup. And as I mention in my original post, our history with "crowning" spells and talents is not all that great. I guess we'll just add this one to the list.
My big problem is with reaction time. Look, I'm staring at the health bars when I heal. I'm as bad as anyone when it comes to "healer tunnel vision". I've learned to pay attention to my immediate surroundings so that I don't stand in fire. But if I'm staring at a bar and I see the mage is starting to take big hits, I don't stop healing...and look around...to see... if the mage...is standing...in fire...so I can...life grip him/her...to safety. Nope, not gonna happen. I'm going to spam heals on them and hope they move. End of story.
I'm sure we'll all find creative uses for it and it will be fun to use in Arathi Basin. Yeah, okay. And I'm guessing they'll design an encounter around it like they
finally
did with Mass Dispel and Zul'Aman's final boss. But for right now? I'm still kinda "meh".
Post by
pezz
3. To help players who just can't seem to get out of the fire in time
Yeah, but I usually just heal through the damage. I'm
a healer
. My first and best instinct is always to cast a heal, not grip them over to me. I've got other things to worry about (like, am
I
standing in the fire?) I'm focusing on the health bars, not where people are
standing
. And if they die anyways, maybe they deserve to.
No, you're not just a healer, you're a priest healer. My first and best instinct while playing my holy paladin is to ask myself 'do I have a cooldown appropriate to this situation, and is it worth using in the context of the fight?' I do this because 1) mindless HL spam does not equal having enough mana to heal the entire fight and 2) my cooldowns are always more effective than healing if used properly.
I would kill for a spell like this on my holy paladin. It fits our style exactly, and I think also works incredibly well with priests. Use the right utility spell to trivialize a mechanic, don't brute force through it, especially once you have to actually start watching your mana in Cata.
And yes, if someone routinely stands in the fire, they deserve a hefty repair bill. But does the whole raid deserve one when you enrage timer wipe because you let them die, when you had the tools to save them?
Post by
pelf
One thing that I see people doing time and again when analysing these changes is forgetting that your whole style of healing is going to change. You aren't going to be able to be OCD with topping off every single little deficit of health across the whole raid. It's not whack a mole. If you can pull someone out of danger to avoid having to spend precious mana healing them, then that's a far better solution.
Post by
erdos1913
Pezz, dearest. I'm guessing you didn't read my "reaction time" post just above yours, but just in case you did...
I've been healing for almost 5 years now. I have a priest, shaman and a paladin, all healers. Please don't talk down to me, I know how to use the right tools and I don't spam HL or GH or whatever. I try my best to pick the right healing tool for the job.
But don't ask me to monitor if
the rogue who is 40 yards away from me and already covered in spell effects is also standing in green goo
and needs to be Life Gripped instead. I'm going to heal the raid and hope for the best. Maybe he'll cloak, may he won't. But I'm not going to grab him and a) have a more competent, more aware player die instead b/c I dropped focus or b) have him scream at me while he runs all the way back to the boss. "I was gonna cloak! I swear! My DPS is dropping, you totally messed up my rotation!" Even if I did just save his miserable, backstabbing little self. ;-)
Post by
Braevia
I can't believe what I'm hearing. I saw the changes this morning on WoW.com, and came here bouncing with joy to discuss how AWESOME the new Cataclysm Priest changes are, ESPECIALLY Lifegrip. And most of you think it's "meh"?
There is no part of this spell that is not awesome. Pulling a slow rogue out of the fire? WIN.
Tank loses aggro, mobs all over you? LIFEGRIP FTW. Pull that Pally to you, let him consecrate.
Shaman blows your buddy off a cliff? Lifegrip him back.
Jump off a cliff yourself? Lifegrip a pal, then cast levitate and /laugh.
Tank runs off ahead of you in a dungeon while you're drinking? Lifegrip him.
The only downside to this spell is that amusing myself with it is liable to get me /gkicked.
And I look at it and say:
1) Rogue should L2P or Cloak of Skill.
2) Fade.
3) MC the shaman and throw him off, because unless he's a moron he's going to blow you off the cliff instead of your buddy.
4) Hymn + Fiend.
You find great value in it, I see its uses already being covered by competent play (much like body and soul).
That makes it a good candidate for a talent, but a poor one for our crowning spell.
edit: To me, the most common usage would be to grief same faction.
I would argue that in each of those situation, Lifegrip is a superior option. In most guild runs I've been in, healers generally know the fights better than pretty much anyone, save for (maybe) the tanks. This allows healers to make minor adjustments to raid positioning, based on their knowledge of the fights. It is also just an incredibly cool, fun ability. I'll never lose another footrace in WoW...as soon as the rogue pops his speedboost, BAM! Lifegrip.
Post by
179389
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Braevia
I'm unconvinced at this point that it's going to be the only, or even the best, level 85 Priest spell. I particularly disagree with it becoming a talent; if it's a talent, it'll quickly be left out of all "acceptable" builds, and will basically wind up like Lightwell. It's a fun idea with some good utility, but certainly not a requirement - exactly the kind of talent that players are discouraged from taking.
Post by
Patty
I'm unconvinced at this point that it's going to be the only, or even the best, level 85 Priest spell. I particularly disagree with it becoming a talent; if it's a talent, it'll quickly be left out of all "acceptable" builds, and will basically wind up like Lightwell. It's a fun idea with some good utility, but certainly not a requirement - exactly the kind of talent that players are discouraged from taking.
I'm going to sit on the fence here, but I think that Leap of Faith is a good spell idea, yes, and it has many good situational uses...but that's just it. It's incredibly situational, and it should be maybe a level 81 spell rather than a level 85 one.
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