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Trade chat is out of control
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Post by
Riotus
I would pay $30 dollars a month without question to have a spam free, anal joke free world of warcraft. Money is not an issue to me. Of course blizz would never change the price, they would end up losing money if they did as they would lose a ton of subs just changing from 15$ to 20$
Also im willing to bet that the loss of revenue is from the activision side of things, blizz always had strong earning statements prior to merging with activision, worst mistake blizz has ever made......
If baffles me that'd you'd pay twice as much for a game in which you didn't have to see anal spamming in trade chat while for the same price you could turn off trade chat.
I honestly think,
but cannot prove
, that you are just saying that to drive your point home and to show your dedication to your cause (which is admirable). And that if this day did come you'd be jumping along with us off to the next MMO that would take WoW'S place.
If my assumption is wrong I apologize, but really? Twice the price for the same game - spam? That's like paying for email addresses. No one does it, they just use the free stuff, and get software (usually free) to get rid of the spam... (or better yet not subject themselves to it).
The whole reason i want trade cleaned up is when my kid is old enough to play id like him to be able to play with me, but the way things currently are i will not be able to allow him to play. It would be more than worth it to me to pay extra to have a clean game for him to be able to enjoy. Im 25 now, i started playing uo when i was like 11-12, we NEVER had problems of this magnitude, yea u had your accasional idiot that would yell obsenitys, but they would be dealt with harshly by the gms.
And on top of that, you guys forget that kids play these games where there parents are unaware of what goes on in game, alot of parents today are oblivious to what goes on they think that its just a game and they have no idea this stuff goes on, and yes, its the parents fault, but as a human being its disgusting to talk like that when you think a kid could be around, and yea u say oh turn trade off but that doesnt help when people use /say and /yell, which they often do with their vulgarities.
I'm gonna say my opinion VERY carefully here. As to not offend you and keep this discussion as civil as possible.
I understand that you want to play in an activity with your kids like this. But honestly sir, why should I have to pay more for something, so that you can guilt-free play it with your kids. As to the parents not being aware of what goes on in the game fact; honestly, thats the parent's fault all the way. Now your opinions could vary from mine, but I shouldn't be responsible for creating an atmosphere that is conducive to your child's well-being, that is the parent's job. Now, I'm not against there being ways to control what comes to your kid's computer screen when he/she is playing the game. That's fine, but subjecting the rest of the population to your demands honestly isn't fair.
Your right, its not, its also not fair to subject ANYONE to the disgusting things that have been going on in chat. My scenario in which they raised the price was only brought up because someone else said they would have to increase the price to hire gms, which they would never increase the price as they would lose millions of subs if they did, again they should just hire a bunch from india or somthing it cost very very little. i was just saying that i myself would not mind a price change to get rid of the vulgarity if it was the only option.
I also agree its the parents fault for letting kids even play the game. BUT Blizzard, as a company looking to make a profit should realize that it is losing a large customer base by not simply enforcing the rules they already have on the books.
Post by
Riotus
1. I do apologize, and I guess I should've... but really no.. I don't apologize. I don't agree with censorship, especially when it comes to free speech. I have the
right
to say whatever I want (and face whatever consequences I agree to due to the TOS) you do
NOT
have the right to
not
be offended by what I say. If you don't like it, leave, it's honestly that simple.
Censorship does nothing but waste money. Let's have Blizzard fix the game rather then police our actions.
When did folks lose the right to feel offended?
Carefully read my post again, notice the third bolded word. They never did.
Now to prevent further derailment of this topic (which I'm beginning to see is a lost cause) I'll describe my point to you one last time, and hope, actually pray (and I'm not a religious person) that you'll get it.
I have the
right
to say, whatever comes into my head, without fear of any of my
rights
being taken away. The last time I checked, playing WoW, isn't a
right
granted to me in the Constitution. That
can
be taken away (although I don't agree with it as has been shown to be plainly obvious). While going out into the street and cursing at the first people that walked by could
NEVER
(legally) cause me to be thrown in prison. It's incredibly rude and offensive yes, but I still have the
right
, while being thrown in prison would take away my
rights
(particularly the life, liberty and pursuit of happiness part...).
Now one avenue for recourse (and the easiest) is yes, to leave trade. Thats why I suggested it. But it isn't the only method. You could ticket a GM... but odds are they don't want to answer these tickets because it's such a wide spread problem... your third option is to discuss the topic with the questionable person. Which notice how I did so with CaimoheX. We found what each other was saying to be offensive, had a discussion about it and settled it peacefully. If the person you are talking to doesn't want to do so and wants to be immature then you are probably going to ignore him... WHICH IS WHAT YOU WOULD'VE DONE IF YOU JUST LEFT TRADE CHAT!
Your rights to free speech are not absolute.
Get it now? I've been separating the two all along but you couldn't comprehend my point. In terms of speaking in a public forum (i.e. without the rules of a business or contractually binding agreement), the freedom of speech is most absolutely absolute. In fact. I could say that I wanted to overthrow the government and make it a Communist Nature. The same way Neo-nazis can protest in streets, spouting the most offensive things you could imagine, I should be able to discuss ideas openly.
Actually if you just walked around shouting profanitys in public you CAN be arrested for disturbing the peace, ive seen it happen.
Also, you do not have the right to say WHATEVER you want. you cant go around saying your gunna shoot the president or blow somthing up. Look at that "christian" militia group, they were all arrested because they said they were gunna kill apolice officer.
Your views on free speech are very clouded and not at all accurate.
Post by
Mustangman
AAARRGGGHHH....jdslkfjklsdjfkljsdf....brbbbbrrrbb....the sky is falling! AHHHHHH, EVERYTHING IS OUT OF CONTROL.
Like this out of control? I'm just sayin'.....
Post by
90985
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Riotus
Actually if you just walked around shouting profanitys in public you CAN be arrested for disturbing the peace, ive seen it happen.
Also, you do not have the right to say WHATEVER you want. you cant go around saying your gunna shoot the president or blow somthing up. Look at that "christian" militia group, they were all arrested because they said they were gunna kill apolice officer.
Your views on free speech are very clouded and not at all accurate.
Disturbing the peace =/= Free Speech.
In an organized way, yes free speech is absolute. Disturbing the peace could be playing your radio too loud... and in no way prohibits one saying what's on their mind. If you have seen people being arrested for publically voicing their opinions in an organized fashion then my friend you either were a witness to a grave injustice to our Constitution or are living in some third world country.
And that Christian Militan group actually did plot to kill the president.. they didn't just say it. The also planned on killing several other people... in all honesty you're not talking about the same thing I am.
edit: Ok apparently I'm talking about something different... off to do some research on this.
Ok found it
Is this what you're talking about?
Honestly though, these guys didn't just walk out into the open and say "I'm gonna kill a cop!" They planned it out, and were already known to be a violent group. Honestly again... we aren't talking about the same thing. (Also helped that these guys actually planned to use explosive projectiles (aka WMDs...) too... again =/= free speech...)
Your right, its not, its also not fair to subject ANYONE to the disgusting things that have been going on in chat. My scenario in which they raised the price was only brought up because someone else said they would have to increase the price to hire gms, which they would never increase the price as they would lose millions of subs if they did, again they should just hire a bunch from india or somthing it cost very very little. i was just saying that i myself would not mind a price change to get rid of the vulgarity if it was the only option.
I also agree its the parents fault for letting kids even play the game. BUT Blizzard, as a company looking to make a profit should realize that it is losing a large customer base by not simply enforcing the rules they already have on the books.
So instead of simply turning off trade for your kid, you'd rather police the rest of the population of the game? And who are you? Some sort of economic genius? Who are you to assume that hiring the amount of GMs that would be required to police the trade chat 24/7 wouldn't be enough to cause the subscription fee to go up? Do you even know how much customer service costs? If it wasn't that much why on a HP computer (which I know from personal experiences outsources their customer experience with India) customer service $79.99 per computer? For even the most basic of customer service plans? (This of course is just one example.. I'm sure other places it costs more or even less.)
The beauty of this, is that you can take action in your own hands! You can control what your kid experiences, that's the beauty of being a parent, and being in control. Honestly, asking, nay demanding Blizzard to do so is rather immature.
edit2: I bet Blizzard is constantly looking at ways to increase subscriptions for their game, and honestly have viewed what people complain about. If people are complaining as much as you say they are, don't you think they would've cracked down harder on these people posting questionable behavior already? Especially if they felt their bottom line was in jeopardy?
Please then, since that is what you belive, i want you to go stand out in front of a police station, and call every single cop that walks out of the building some of the things you hear people called in trade chat, lets see what happens if your right absolutely nothing.
Again, you cannot simply turn off trade chat, people on my server especially looove using /yell, i think its the red font i guess it makes them feel like a better troll. And also, you need to use trade chat, try getting into an icc 10/25 pug without it, its not possible, i had to sit there for 3 hours trying to get a group and get it together listening to the garbage in trade.
And yes, i will control what my kids experience, if trade is like it is now they will never play the game. avoiding the wrath of my wife is much more important than a game.
Oh and it doesnt cost any where near 80 dollars to set up a computer for a customer service rep to work on if ur on a tight budget, companies buy those computers in huge bulks, and if they are having money problems they can buy really old ones. LOL when i was a teenager i worked in a little pos call center that used computers that still ran dos, this was in 2004 damn things didnt even have a mouse.... i guarantee those comptuers cost less that 20 a piece, lol and the phones were black rotary phones.... ah good times.....
Post by
90985
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
278980
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
240282
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
528207
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
xaratherus
Again, you cannot simply turn off trade chat, people on my server especially looove using /yell
You can customize
every
channel as to whether or not it is shown; I know this for a fact because I have a rather complex chat layout that I use on every character (4 tabs on one window, and a separate window showing nothing but loot).
You could turn off every single channel on the chat tab and set it to not show speech bubbles, and your child could not see a single thing that anyone else says. You have a huge amount of control over what channels your kid can or cannot see.
I understand that you want to protect your child; that's still not a valid excuse for what you're requesting because you can already do everything already without hiring a hundred new GMs.
In the guild I used to lead, two of the members were parents of a seven-year old son who played WoW. He was only allowed to play when one of his parents were online, and they set up his chat so that he could not see
any
chat save party and raid.
Again, I'm not necessarily against more GMs; I'm against more GMs for this specific reason. I'm realistic about the ideas that: 1) Blizzard's stockholders won't support a hit on their revenue for more GMs, meaning that they would have to pay for the new GMs from other sources (increased monthly fees, paid download content instead of free updates, etc.); 2) I would not pay an increased monthly fee solely based on the argument of, "I want to protect my child!" or "I'm tired of seeing this filth!" when I already have all the tools I need to ensure that I (or my child) do not see any of the trash talk already.
Post by
Riotus
... in 2004 they didn't have computer mice? Ok maybe you're just a stupid troll.
I concur, or he's got a pathological need to over-embellish to enforce his weak arguments.
I was talking about a specific office i worked at, the computers they had were super old only ran on dos, had no need for a mouse.
Post by
Riotus
Please then, since that is what you belive, i want you to go stand out in front of a police station, and call every single cop that walks out of the building some of the things you hear people called in trade chat, lets see what happens if your right absolutely nothing.
So... you're basically saying "Nuh-uh!" Please...
I'm beginning to wonder who I'm talking to...
Sigh.. ok... in an ORGANIZED fashion, I can say whatever I want. I can also say those things in front of the police station, but honestly, besides a warning, and asking me to leave the property, there isn't much that would be done... legally.
Again, you cannot simply turn off trade chat, people on my server especially looove using /yell, i think its the red font i guess it makes them feel like a better troll. And also, you need to use trade chat, try getting into an icc 10/25 pug without it, its not possible, i had to sit there for 3 hours trying to get a group and get it together listening to the garbage in trade.
The /yell, ok you got me there. There isn't much you can do to avoid that. And while I agree not being able to use trade would hinder getting into pugs, there are (and should be) other avenues to access these pugs. (I.E. a LFD system but with raids) All of this though would require no more GMs then already in place and would be a MUCH BETTER solution than policing us.
And yes, i will control what my kids experience, if trade is like it is now they will never play the game. avoiding the wrath of my wife is much more important than a game.
I'm curious... do your kids go to public school? And if they do, do they ride the school bus? I've learned books of obscenities on the school bus when I was a kid. Just saying, it's hard to protect your kids from everything.
Oh and it doesnt cost any where near 80 dollars to set up a computer for a customer service rep to work on if ur on a tight budget, companies buy those computers in huge bulks, and if they are having money problems they can buy really old ones. LOL when i was a teenager i worked in a little pos call center that used computers that still ran dos, this was in 2004 damn things didnt even have a mouse.... i guarantee those comptuers cost less that 20 a piece, lol and the phones were black rotary phones.... ah good times.....
Never said it costs that much to set it up, that's how much HP CHARGES. Do you get that? You're basically asking Blizzard to hire hundreds of more paid employees who get benefits, vacation time, and an hourly rate (yes, even outsourced Indians have some benefits).To say that it won't raise the cost of standard business is absurd honestly.
Again I say it again, taking a more active role in your child's experiences is much more rewarding than having some secret society of police clean up the world for them. I know lots of people with kids, and rather than hide them from that kind of language, they explain to them that, the language in question is used by immature and stupid people... and if they respect themselves and others they shouldn't use it.
... in 2004 they didn't have computer mice? Ok maybe you're just a stupid troll.
No my kids will NEVER ride public transportation, some of my worst memories from school are on the bus.
So in an organized fashion, i want you to go in front of the police station, hell get some people together with ya, and call police officers the very same names your hear in trade chat, talk about the same disgusting things they talk about, loudly, where everyone in the vacinity will hear you, lets see what happens. this should be interesting, videotape it too! would get alot of hits on youtube!
Yet again i will say that the entire free speech arguement is completely invalid because of the TOS. If blizzard wanted to ban people for talking about blu cheese, they could do so if its in the TOS.
Post by
90985
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Riotus
No my kids will NEVER ride public transportation, some of my worst memories from school are on the bus.
So in an organized fashion, i want you to go in front of the police station, hell get some people together with ya, and call police officers the very same names your hear in trade chat, talk about the same disgusting things they talk about, loudly, where everyone in the vacinity will hear you, lets see what happens. this should be interesting, videotape it too! would get alot of hits on youtube!
Yet again i will say that the entire free speech arguement is completely invalid because of the TOS. If blizzard wanted to ban people for talking about blu cheese, they could do so if its in the TOS.
Ok. Wow, you have no concept of reading comprehension. Mods, can ya lock this thread? Not only is it irrelevant, the OP has to go making outrageous exaggerations, and frankly it's already derailed enough.
(btw... I said I agreed to ToS about 11 posts up... idiot.)
LOL But i have free speech and can say whatever i want (as long as it is within the tos of this site) and seeing as you have made an attempt to insult me, which clearly is against the TOS, lets see how far your free speech goes when your post is reported.
Post by
drame
/leave 2
^This!
If ya cant handle the crap that comes with the cake, simply dont eat the cake and go over in a corner and convince yourself the cake is a lie.
-which it is not
-- its in another castle :P
Post by
Riotus
/leave 2
^This!
If ya cant handle the crap that comes with the cake, simply dont eat the cake and go over in a corner and convince yourself the cake is a lie.
-which it is not
-- its in another castle :P
But if i am told by the baker of the cake that i shouldnt have to deal with the crap that comes with the cake then it is the bakers responsibility to live up to its promises.
Post by
322464
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Apodictic
I disagree.
Censorship
is out of control.
As with the posts above, leave the damn channel. You're not forced to be there, take the initiative and get out. I realize that people now are taught that everything should be handed to them on a silver platter, but in reality, it's not.
/leave Trade
Post by
xaratherus
But if i am told by the baker of the cake that i shouldnt have to deal with the crap that comes with the cake then it is the bakers responsibility to live up to its promises.
But by your own admission, Blizzard can do anything they want, at any time. They ask you to abide by their ToU; they don't make you any promises that they will uphold it. In other words, they're telling you how they expect you to behave, so that
if
they ban you for foul language, you have no recourse.
They do not, in any way, shape, or form, imply that their ToU guarantees the player any sort of specific environment, or that they will take any sort of action- only that they
can
take action
if
they feel like it.
Post by
drame
/leave 2
^This!
If ya cant handle the crap that comes with the cake, simply dont eat the cake and go over in a corner and convince yourself the cake is a lie.
-which it is not
-- its in another castle :P
But if i am told by the baker of the cake that i shouldnt have to deal with the crap that comes with the cake then it is the bakers responsibility to live up to its promises.
this sir is the internetbakery, theres crap with everything. The whole "you shouldnt have to deal with it" thing, its a nice idea and such.
But frankly out of reach, so live with it or go convince yourself the cake is a lie.
p.s
those agreeing with ya on this topic is 99% sure not the be the butthats that do it, now is it? :P
p.s.s stop the wish for cencoring, theres been a
few
funny trade talks/macroes etc. And i wouldn't sell that even if i got to have all the tradechat crap out of the way... Besides what else am i gonna be looking am when im bored?
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