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Allaince really getting screwed..
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Post by
Monday
Shatter point isn't really a major city, is a VERY small scouting post, if that one is taken in consideration, then Reaver's fall should too.
and also there's the Mag'har post.
I thought they were major cities, turns out they were just travel hubs.
Post by
Adamsm
and is true, this is just "what if" scenarios, wich can only be debated but not proven, if a concensus is not attained imidetly then the discussion should be dropped because this is something neither side can prove...
all I meant by my statement at page 3 was to prove wrong the statement "varian has no problem with DK's"
my only base for it is that he is rude to DK players, while thrall is not...
Varian threatens you with death and says he's actually itching to make you a stain on the floor, whereas thrall doesn't display such violence.
there's no doubt at all of what varian would had done to the DK players if they hand't recieved tirion's endorsement, since varian himself said that he wanted you dead and bleeding.
However I would like to believe that Thrall would had acted diferently if only because he showed respect and restraint when in the presence of a DK, so even without Tirion's endorsement, I would like to believe he would had just trown the DK's out and that's that. but since that's a "what if" scenario I can't prove it.
Adamsm pointed out that former forsaken emisaries were killed on sight before they were allowed an audience with the warchief, and he's right, so adamsm believes that without Tirion's endorsement Thrall would had also Killed DK players like varian even if he showed restraint and respect... however, just like me, he cannot prove it.
so.......
since neither him nor me can prove our side, and the only thing we can do is defend our theories, the only thing that can be done is agree that we disagree and leave it at that.
now please tauren, drop this fight bro'.
as a fellow horde brother i ask it of you please.Aye, it's one thing to have a 'what if' but it's another when they are used to skew a point of view against a leader heh; and the Forsaken thing is in the Horde player's Guide Rank, about their history and how they joined the Horde. So yes, it makes sense to be semi-leery when an 'undead' corpse walks into your city wanting to play nice, but I do agree Varian should have thought first instead of just reacting. But at least we disproved (to a rational person) that Varian didn't send Thrassian to his death.
Post by
Rankkor
a significant base, or outpost that houses a presence of forces is marked on the map....
with markers........ some of those markers are legion, some are alliance and some are horde.
this
map
of hellfire peninsula has highlighted (crudely by me xD) all the markers that denote bases that are big enough to be important.
those highlighted blue are alliance, those highlighted red are horde, those highlighted green are legion.
the real MAJOR significant bases the alliance has is Honor hold, the temple of the draenei, and shatter point (hard as I search I can't find that "honor point" you mentioned, are you sure that's on hellfire?)
whereas the horde has significant present bases in the form of Thrallmar, Falcon watch, Spinebreaker post, Mag'har post, and Reaver's fall.
and despite the bigger amount of horde bases, my point stands, hellfire is NOT horde territory, is contested simply because while they have fewer bases, the alliance still has a large presence in the land, wich makes it contested.
this goes directly to south barrens, so don't let it get over exited at the prospect of "alliance haz barrens" just because you opened a few bases there.
as long as the horde as a large force in the area in the form of a HUGE base that almost doubles the size of the alliance one, so said area is neither alliance nor horde property but contested........
much the same way as ashenvale as more alliance bases than horde ones, and it is still a contested land, because despite the larger amount of allied bases, the horde presence is significant.
:P there are some exeptions, Duskwood for example I regard it as an alliance land, even when "Gameplay-wise" is contested.
why? because the only horde presence there is 2 forsaken NPC's on a deserted tower, while the alliance has a large town in there. so lore-wise that zone is of the alliance.
Barrens however, North=horde South=contested.
Post by
Monday
(hard as I search I can't find that "honor point" you mentioned, are you sure that's on hellfire?)
Yeah I'm sure. It's west of hte Forge camps above Thrallmar.
And the Alliance Version of the reaver's fall should be put in as well.
Edit: Here's a quest mentioning honor point.
Post by
Rankkor
(hard as I search I can't find that "honor point" you mentioned, are you sure that's on hellfire?)
Yeah I'm sure. It's west of hte Forge camps above Thrallmar.
And the Alliance Version of the reaver's fall should be put in as well.
Edit: Here's a quest mentioning honor point.
o_O humm dude..... you do know that your precious "honor point" is just 3 NPC's standing in the dirt right?
no towers, no bases, no fortifications, not even a large or semi-large squad of forces, just 1 quest-giver and 2 backup NPC's plus the dwarf to act as flight path........
that thing is so small, that not only it doesn't have a marker on the map, it doesn't even have a "subzone" status when u're in hellfire, as the spot where they are standing is considered part of the "Invation Point:Anihilator".
to say that they are a base is like saying any random NPC standing alone to give you 1 single quest is also a 1man base....... if that was the case, then the blood-elf wandering hellfire on his Chocobo could be considered a horde base too :P
but let's not get that way, "Honor point" is nothing more than 3 people scouting a legion base.
Edit: the alliance version of Reaver's fall is shatter point. as that is the place u're given the quest to bombard the legion forges
Post by
Adamsm
Honour point is only 5 guys and a flight master, you fly there from Shatter Point(hey, just saying).
Post by
Monday
but let's not get that way, "Honor point" is nothing more than 3 people scouting a legion base.
Well, it's got fortifications and a Flight Path, so I consider it a forward base.
Honour point is only 5 guys and a flight master, you fly there from Shatter Point(hey, just saying).
However many, it is still a command center, even if it is small. Thus I consider it a base.
Post by
Rankkor
Honour point is only 5 guys and a flight master, you fly there from Shatter Point(hey, just saying).
what addams said, Honor point is just a simple extention of Shatter Point. and it's not fortificated, it's just 5 guys hiding under a rock man xD
Shatter Point is a proper base, and it's the closest equivalent of the Alliance's version of Reaver's fall.
Post by
Monday
Honour point is only 5 guys and a flight master, you fly there from Shatter Point(hey, just saying).
what addams said, Honor point is just a simple extention of Shatter Point. and it's not fortificated, it's just 5 guys hiding under a rock man xD
Shatter Point is a proper base, and it's the closest equivalent of the Alliance's version of Reaver's fall.
Expedition Point actually.
And like I said, they have fortifications, quests and a Flight Master, so I consider it a base.
Post by
Rankkor
whatever rocks your boat bro'..........
just saying that 5 people sitting on the mud hardly counts as a base.
if that was the case, would you count
Death's Stand
as another alliance base? dude....... is 2 tents...... and 2 marines......... that's all.
I could list the number of small pockets of horde soldiers entrenched in a small position too, but I'm not gonna, because if it doesn't have buildings, if it doesn't have a SIGNIFICANT amount of armed forces, if it's not fortified in any way, nor is it marked on the map with a Tower or Castle icon, and doesn't even have it's own "Subzone" name attatched to it, then it is NOT a base.
but whatever, if you wanna count every single individual soldier out of a base as another base, U're free to do it :P
Post by
Monday
Yeah I'd count Death's Stand as a base. It's small but it is a foothold (considering they also have taken the Ziggurat...).
I could list the number of small pockets of horde soldiers entrenched in a small position too, but I'm not gonna, because if it doesn't have buildings, if it doesn't have a SIGNIFICANT amount of armed forces, if it's not fortified in any way, nor is it marked on the map with a Tower or Castle icon, and doesn't even have it's own "Subzone" name attatched to it, then it is NOT a base.
I agree with you here,
if it's not fortified in any way
It
has
fortifications (which I consider to make it a base. Are you just going to fortify a piece of sidwalk?).
but whatever, if you wanna count every single individual soldier out of a base as another base, U're free to do it :P
Again, it's the fortifications and the fact you take missions. I don't see it as a base so much as a "mobile command center" =P
Post by
Spectrezh
Did you see SW? Park gone.
Fearthmoon in Feralas? gone.
Ashenvale towns? gone.
W.T.F.
I know all the "cool mature kids" play Horde and deserve everything but can we get some love?
meh its the park...when was the last time you had a picnic there? Did you see the rest of SW? hmm? Bada** Keep.
Last i checked,
Feathermoon is still there, looks like it just been moved
.
NE town is still there...just been bomb quite a few times by Horde
I'm a cool mature guy, I play Alliance, I don't feel Blizzard totally F-ed us, at least from what I see from sites, not yet... >.>
PS. not everyone on Horde is cool and mature, trust me ;)
Post by
Rankkor
actually the OP seems to have missed the point that while the old park district was blown to hell, stormwind has a NEWER BIGGER PARK norht of the cathedral square, complete with a lake, farms, shaman shrine, canopy..... a true garden of eden right at the seat of the alliance power......
and as for the ashenvale towns gone...... astranaar is still there active and operational, it's getting hammered by the horde due to the new town "Hellscream's vigil" but the town is still a fully functional alliance base. the other alliance towns in the area are still there, fully operational.
is posible that forest song even gets an upgrade after 3 years of getting aclimmated.
and feathermoon, well, as the guy above me said, the island got boned, the stronghold just moved.
just drop the drama-queen act, you still have the most important part: your leaders.
can the horde say the same? nope we cannot.
Post by
586215
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
An interesting turn of events. Horde looses two leaders, get a bloodthirsty Warchief instead of a wise and smart one, Cairne dies. Seriously, I liked the horde feel because they knew what honor is, unlike the traitorous alliance scum : "So we held of Archimonde together with your sacrifices, ok so for that we will destroy you. Have a good day" - Night Elves, Dwarves and Humans.
Makes me a sad Tauren.
/sigh, Cairne isn't dead, nothing has been released to confirm that other then a rumour that started in SomethingAwful.
Post by
Rankkor
An interesting turn of events. Horde looses two leaders, get a bloodthirsty Warchief instead of a wise and smart one, Cairne dies. Seriously, I liked the horde feel because they knew what honor is, unlike the traitorous alliance scum : "So we held of Archimonde together with your sacrifices, ok so for that we will destroy you. Have a good day" - Night Elves, Dwarves and Humans.
Makes me a sad Tauren.
/sigh, Cairne isn't dead, nothing has been released to confirm that other then a rumour that started in SomethingAwful.
what adamsm said, I refuse to believe that cairne will die unless a blue post says so.
since to this day they haven't then it's just rumors and heresay (is that the right spelling?) and old-wives tales.
stuff about cataclysm that has NOT been confirmed by blizzard:
A: Cairne dead.
B:Garrosh being the reason Cairne is dead.
C:Malfurion returning from hyjal to invest a new guardian of tirisfal.
D:Thrall being that new guardian of tirisfal.
none of those above has EVER been confirmed by blizzard, and in fact, the last 2 have been confirmed to be FALSE.
malfurion didn't returned to invest a new guardian (druids have nothing to do with a MAGE order in the first place), he returned to protect the world tree from ragnaros, if he was to do something as big as invest a new guardian, the oficial site would say so, but since they don't.............
and the Thrall-guardian crap was also confirmed to be false, Blizz spend thousands of dollars in a contract with WCcomics to create the 12 comics that depic the story of Med'an, who as of today stands as the new guardian of tirisfal, invested by the new council wich is headed by Jaina.
so please, add facts that at the very least have some sort of solid ground.
there is nothing to even hint cairne will die, only that he's getting replaced, there's nothign to even hint garrosh will kill him, specially since he leaves taurens in the central part of org wich is where his new castle will be.
Post by
Adamsm
malfurion didn't returned to invest a new guardian (druids have nothing to do with a MAGE order in the first place), he returned to protect the world tree from ragnaros, if he was to do something as big as invest a new guardian, the oficial site would say so, but since they don't.............Well...... Hamuul is part of the Council, and does share his energy to empower the Guardian heh.
Post by
Rankkor
malfurion didn't returned to invest a new guardian (druids have nothing to do with a MAGE order in the first place), he returned to protect the world tree from ragnaros, if he was to do something as big as invest a new guardian, the oficial site would say so, but since they don't.............Well...... Hamuul is part of the Council, and does share his energy to empower the Guardian heh.
well, the diference between the rumors from MMOchamp and what happened on the comics, is that hamuul is just "a part" of the council.
the council was made of 1 representative of every branch of magic in the world, shamanism+druidism+priests+paladins+mages+warlocks, all combining their powers into med'an.
the rumor from MMOchamp was that malfurion ALONE, invested thrall as the new guardian.
the real lore, had a MAGE, assisted by representatives of other magic sources empower the guardian TOGHETER.
:P
Post by
Adamsm
Heh, oh I know, I'm just saying, Nature is part of the new Guardian.
Post by
Rankkor
yhea, a part, not the whole thing, wich is why it upsets me so much to see that people actually swallow that crappy rumor of malfurion empowering thrall as the new guardian alone........
as much as it upsets me to see people actually believing cairne is going to die, and that garrosh will kill him, when no indication of such a thing has been given and nothing has even been hinted at such a travesity
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