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The Alliance gets political stability
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Post by
Adamsm
Well, I did say 'looks like' heh, and I'm sure at some point the focus will shift from the Horde problems back to the real threats in game lol.
I'm still hoping for a rebellion consisiting of Vol'jin, Saurfang and other horde heroes loyal to the true horde, and who stands against Garrosh's change.
That may happen. We don't know how will Garrosh be brought down from his position as Warchief.
I'm still hoping he's left alive at the end, with a chance to redeem himself, instead of just straight out killing him.
Post by
taurenmoo812
I'm still hoping he's left alive at the end, with a chance to redeem himself, instead of just straight out killing him.
I got to wonder, since I've been up front on why I want to see him dead, but why do you want to see him live?
Post by
Adamsm
I'm still hoping he's left alive at the end, with a chance to redeem himself, instead of just straight out killing him.
I got to wonder, since I've been up front on why I want to see him dead, but why do you want to see him live?
Because we saw enough of the killing people the last few expansions; I'd rather see a real redemption happen instead of the 11th hour cop out(*cough*Arthas*cough*), plus, like I've said before; where most people see Garrosh doing all this as part of a throw back to the Demon Horde, I've seen his reactions going back more to the ways of Orcs on Draenor(again, typical clans, not Frostwolves), and it's not like it would hurt to have a commander who can help bring the New ways together with some of the Old ways. There is a good potential for growth to happen to Garrosh, and in a good way, that it would be better to not just 'kill him and be done with it' type of thing.
Post by
taurenmoo812
I'm still hoping he's left alive at the end, with a chance to redeem himself, instead of just straight out killing him.
I got to wonder, since I've been up front on why I want to see him dead, but why do you want to see him live?
Because we saw enough of the killing people the last few expansions; I'd rather see a real redemption happen instead of the 11th hour cop out(*cough*Arthas*cough*), plus, like I've said before; where most people see Garrosh doing all this as part of a throw back to the Demon Horde, I've seen his reactions going back more to the ways of Orcs on Draenor(again, typical clans, not Frostwolves), and it's not like it would hurt to have a commander who can help bring the New ways together with some of the Old ways. There is a good potential for growth to happen to Garrosh, and in a good way, that it would be better to not just 'kill him and be done with it' type of thing.
You can't really say its a throwback to the old ways of the old orc clans of draenor. You see how warsong hold, all other outposts under his leadership, and now orgrimmar have been shaped. Look at how the design of those don't bare the same design as the buildings in nagrand where he grew up. Infact, orgirmmar as it stands under Thralls rule, is where the really essence of the old pre corrupt orcs stands, if you look at the designs of stone, leather and bone buildings.
And plus, Garrosh is a warmonger, not something you can imagine praticed among the mag'har, and the old orcs, though having some savage traditions, were not a warlike race before they were corrupted, regardless of the differences between the clans back then.
its why his character makes so god dam little sense. He hates the alliance but never even meet them before, he wants to go to all out bloodshed but gives no reason. He acts like an orc who drank demonic blood but obviously hasn't.
Post by
92105
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
GVHB
I'm still hoping he's left alive at the end, with a chance to redeem himself, instead of just straight out killing him.
I got to wonder, since I've been up front on why I want to see him dead, but why do you want to see him live?
Because we saw enough of the killing people the last few expansions; I'd rather see a real redemption happen instead of the 11th hour cop out(*cough*Arthas*cough*), plus, like I've said before; where most people see Garrosh doing all this as part of a throw back to the Demon Horde, I've seen his reactions going back more to the ways of Orcs on Draenor(again, typical clans, not Frostwolves), and it's not like it would hurt to have a commander who can help bring the New ways together with some of the Old ways. There is a good potential for growth to happen to Garrosh, and in a good way, that it would be better to not just 'kill him and be done with it' type of thing.
You can't really say its a throwback to the old ways of the old orc clans of draenor. You see how warsong hold, all other outposts under his leadership, and now orgrimmar have been shaped. Look at how the design of those don't bare the same design as the buildings in nagrand where he grew up. Infact, orgirmmar as it stands under Thralls rule, is where the really essence of the old pre corrupt orcs stands, if you look at the designs of stone, leather and bone buildings.
And plus, Garrosh is a warmonger, not something you can imagine praticed among the mag'har, and the old orcs, though having some savage traditions, were not a warlike race before they were corrupted, regardless of the differences between the clans back then.
its why his character makes so god dam little sense. He hates the alliance but never even meet them before, he wants to go to all out bloodshed but gives no reason. He acts like an orc who drank demonic blood but obviously hasn't.
Well, Mag'har architecture made sense in Draenor pre-Kil'jaeden contact with Gul'dan. There were no big war going on. Azeroth nowadays is very different history, seeing that Deathwing (or at least his dragonflight) will attack Stormwind, it's very likely that Orgrimmar also gets attacked. And there are going to be more conflict between Horde and Alliance, more resilient buildings are good.
And why Garrosh hate the humans, I think in his eyes the humans were the invaders (remember W2 Beyond the Dark Portal).
Post by
taurenmoo812
Well, Mag'har architecture made sense in Draenor pre-Kil'jaeden contact with Gul'dan. There were no big war going on. Azeroth nowadays is very different history, seeing that Deathwing (or at least his dragonflight) will attack Stormwind, it's very likely that Orgrimmar also gets attacked. And there are going to be more conflict between Horde and Alliance, more resilient buildings are good.
And why Garrosh hate the humans, I think in his eyes the humans were the invaders (remember W2 Beyond the Dark Portal).
On first part, meh, garrosh lived in what was the orcs traditional homeland and there homes made of stone, leather and bone, so him having all orcish structures shaped with black metal spikes and metal flooring doesn't even make much sense, he wasn't part of the corrupted orcs, given how Grom likely left him there in nagrand.
As for WC2, they came through the dark portal, but no evidense suggests they even came anywhere near to nagrand. The only things in nagrand were the old draenei ruins and the orcs clan towns and villages. So he can't even base that on hating humans if he never saw one before coming to azeroth.
Post by
Adamsm
Eh, like I said, a 'typical' orc, not a Frostwolf; they were the outsider clan in all honesty. Most of the old clans ruled by strength and power(see drowning any sickly or weak babies) and that's what I see when Garrosh kicks out all by the Tauren and Orcs from the center of the city. Yes, there is an analog to the Hellfire Citadel with the black metal... but let's be honest, how effective is leather and stones going to be against Blacks who can breath molten lava and Twilights who let loose with blast of pure magic lightening. But hey, you asked I answered, and I'll let it drop.
As for the Alliance thing... meh, that's just Blizzard pushing him into the war monger position, same as they did with Varian during early Wrath.
Post by
GVHB
Well, Mag'har architecture made sense in Draenor pre-Kil'jaeden contact with Gul'dan. There were no big war going on. Azeroth nowadays is very different history, seeing that Deathwing (or at least his dragonflight) will attack Stormwind, it's very likely that Orgrimmar also gets attacked. And there are going to be more conflict between Horde and Alliance, more resilient buildings are good.
And why Garrosh hate the humans, I think in his eyes the humans were the invaders (remember W2 Beyond the Dark Portal).
On first part, meh, garrosh lived in what was the orcs traditional homeland and there homes made of stone, leather and bone, so him having all orcish structures shaped with black metal spikes and metal flooring doesn't even make much sense, he wasn't part of the corrupted orcs, given how Grom likely left him there in nagrand.
That way, all the structures of the Warsong Offensive in Northrend doesn't make sense.
As for the Alliance thing... meh, that's just Blizzard pushing him into the war monger position, same as they did with Varian during early Wrath.
Varian knew the Orcs as the bloodthirsty savages who destroyed his home, I understand his hate to Orcs, where Garrosh hate to Human doesn't make sense if he had never met them before TBC.
Post by
340634
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Monday
As for WC2, they came through the dark portal, but no evidense suggests they even came anywhere near to nagrand. The only things in nagrand were the old draenei ruins and the orcs clan towns and villages. So he can't even base that on hating humans if he never saw one before coming to azeroth.
They did come close. We know for a fact the Alliance passed through Terrokar, so it's possible they had scouts in Nagrand.
Post by
92105
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
taurenmoo812
basicly there was a split in terms of how the horde worked after WC2. The orcs that remained on azeroth are the ones we know now, pretty much the playable race of orcs that were held in internment camps and freed by thrall. The ones that fleed back to draenor mostly became fel orcs, since it was all they knew. a few of them fleed probably into the wilderness, and ended up in shattrath years later.
And the mag'har were the ones that were left behind in nagrand, maybe like saurfang did with his son, left them there so the warlocks could not take them, or family members not brought to war.
Fact remains though, there has been no evidense of humans in nagrand, and never has there been an indication garrosh confronted any mentioned. So it still stands, the fact they made him into a human hating warmonger is a bad peice of writing.
Post by
Adamsm
And the mag'har were the ones that were left behind in nagrand, maybe like saurfang did with his son, left them there so the warlocks could not take them, or family members not brought to war.
Uh... Tauren.....
Didn't have anything to do with the Warlocks, seeing as during Beyond the Dark Portal, some of the Horde traveled there to see if they could fresh warriors, and found only the 'sickly' ones there.
Post by
taurenmoo812
And the mag'har were the ones that were left behind in nagrand, maybe like saurfang did with his son, left them there so the warlocks could not take them, or family members not brought to war.
Uh... Tauren.....
Didn't have anything to do with the Warlocks, seeing as during Beyond the Dark Portal, some of the Horde traveled there to see if they could fresh warriors, and found only the 'sickly' ones there.
fine sickly ones then, but saurfang said himself he made sure his son would be safe from the warlocks. Regardless the mag'har were not part of the corrupted horde, and garrosh's presence proved enough how Groms mate was left behind with them. Fact is they were the orcs that escaped the corruption of there kin.
Post by
Adamsm
I'm not denying that; and considering how they were treated by those orcs who had taken the demon blood... and Garrosh grew up among them..... do you really expect him to take the Blood, spitting in the face of his 'clan' and his friend Draenosh? And the Mag'har are who I mean when I talk about orcs with the old ways in them; more then likely the great mother taught them the old ways(with the addition of some Frostwolf ideals), and that's merely what Garrosh is going with now.
As for him hating Humans, again, it's just a bad plot device to set him up as the opposite of Varian, who has a valid reason for hating the orcs.... or at least, those orcs in Blackrock Spire and surrounding areas or those orcs on the other side of the portal, but no so much for the new Horde.
Post by
taurenmoo812
I'm not denying that; and considering how they were treated by those orcs who had taken the demon blood... and Garrosh grew up among them..... do you really expect him to take the Blood, spitting in the face of his 'clan' and his friend Draenosh? And the Mag'har are who I mean when I talk about orcs with the old ways in them; more then likely the great mother taught them the old ways(with the addition of some Frostwolf ideals), and that's merely what Garrosh is going with now.
As for him hating Humans, again, it's just a bad plot device to set him up as the opposite of Varian, who has a valid reason for hating the orcs.... or at least, those orcs in Blackrock Spire and surrounding areas or those orcs on the other side of the portal, but no so much for the new Horde.
pff, like an orc hating warmongers gonna care about the details, and orcs and orc to him right?.
And if garrosh was going on what you believe to be the old ways, then its suggesting the old ways involved acting like a ragaholic thug and killing without honor or cause. From all evidense pointing towards it, this wasn't something shown in nagrand, at least not under the greatmothers leadership.
Post by
GVHB
I'm not denying that; and considering how they were treated by those orcs who had taken the demon blood... and Garrosh grew up among them..... do you really expect him to take the Blood, spitting in the face of his 'clan' and his friend Draenosh? And the Mag'har are who I mean when I talk about orcs with the old ways in them; more then likely the great mother taught them the old ways(with the addition of some Frostwolf ideals), and that's merely what Garrosh is going with now.
As for him hating Humans, again, it's just a bad plot device to set him up as the opposite of Varian, who has a valid reason for hating the orcs.... or at least, those orcs in Blackrock Spire and surrounding areas or those orcs on the other side of the portal, but no so much for the new Horde.
pff, like an orc hating warmongers gonna care about the details, and orcs and orc to him right?.
And if garrosh was going on what you believe to be the old ways, then its suggesting the old ways involved acting like a ragaholic thug and killing without honor or cause. From all evidense pointing towards it, this wasn't something shown in nagrand, at least not under the greatmothers leadership.
Maybe not fully in the old ways. But adapt some of the brown skinned orcs ways into the New Horde.
Post by
Adamsm
I'm not denying that; and considering how they were treated by those orcs who had taken the demon blood... and Garrosh grew up among them..... do you really expect him to take the Blood, spitting in the face of his 'clan' and his friend Draenosh? And the Mag'har are who I mean when I talk about orcs with the old ways in them; more then likely the great mother taught them the old ways(with the addition of some Frostwolf ideals), and that's merely what Garrosh is going with now.
As for him hating Humans, again, it's just a bad plot device to set him up as the opposite of Varian, who has a valid reason for hating the orcs.... or at least, those orcs in Blackrock Spire and surrounding areas or those orcs on the other side of the portal, but no so much for the new Horde.
pff, like an orc hating warmongers gonna care about the details, and orcs and orc to him right?.
And if garrosh was going on what you believe to be the old ways, then its suggesting the old ways involved acting like a ragaholic thug and killing without honor or cause. From all evidense pointing towards it, this wasn't something shown in nagrand, at least not under the greatmothers leadership.
/shrug, Just saying, with his focus on strength and power over intelligence.
Post by
taurenmoo812
/shrug, Just saying, with his focus on strength and power over intelligence.
likewise, the reason for his fetist for black metal spikes coating everything and having his bases look like hellfire citadel (an eyesore on the land as said in rise of the horde) is about as viable for his hatred for humans, that orcs who won back there honor shaped there homes with a reflection of the stone and leather houses in nagrand, but for some reason, garrosh didn't?
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