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| Cataclysm Talent Trees | Discussion | Comprehensive Changes| 4.0.1 |
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Post by
119023
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
nickseng
Might be funnier if they got the spellings right. :)
Post by
292516
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
620394
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
1kalii
I'm really not feeling Arcane Power as a real 31 point talent. Reminds me of hunger for blood a bland increase in spell power for a top tier talent. I think it needs a defensive component or some form of utility in order to stay where it is.
I'm a bit surprised that we didn't get another arcane spell to throw in the rotation considering we just have 3 spells at the moment for direct dmg spell casting. Arcane explosion could be made into something much more useful as well.
Overall it is a good first step to bringing all trees up from where they were previously. Once they complete the specializations we really will see the direction of where mages are going.
Post by
Drefanator
I'm really not feeling Arcane Power as a real 31 point talent. Reminds me of hunger for blood a bland increase in spell power for a top tier talent. I think it needs a defensive component or some form of utility in order to stay where it is.
I'm a bit surprised that we didn't get another arcane spell to throw in the rotation considering we just have 3 spells at the moment for direct dmg spell casting. Arcane explosion could be made into something much more useful as well.
Overall it is a good first step to bringing all trees up from where they were previously. Once they complete the specializations we really will see the direction of where mages are going.
Yeah, I'm feeling you about the AP being the 31 point talent. It's kind of weird to see a cooldown like that be the 31 point (poor Shadow Priests, and moreso BM hunters). I think having another spell, however, I don't know what it could be except for something like Arcane Orbs or something, I think one of the bosses has something like that where the Arcane explosion moves along in a path. (I think it's the Ethereal that you have to kite in VH)
I think that's my biggest problem with the tree at the moment. My biggest problem with mages atm however is the lack of Flame Orb exploding when it reaches it's target. Hopefully that will be a glyph, wish it was adressed on there twitter thing a few days ago.
Post by
Kokorazashi
Updated the main page with some builds that you guys have come up with (For ease of access) and also organized and cleaned up the original post a bit (Added breaks to keep the post in segments). I've also added in a snazzy contents section that'll help not only me when editing the post but also you to skip to certain sections. When new news is added in, I'll place an exclamation mark next to that section, to highlight updates.
EDIT: Also updated with the new Beta build, and will watch it closely for new changes to come.
Post by
Drefanator
Yay, new build.
New build means I redo my idea for pve trees:
Fire:
http://www.wowtal.com/#k=ZY8WhTKi.9q4.mage
Blizz are jerks and are making us spec for Blastwave to pick up Combustion. Jerk move. The only thing I would argue about the build is whether to do 3/3 Clearcasting and 1/2 Arcane Potency, or 2/3 Clearcasting and 2/2 Arcane Potency.
It seems to me to be minor. Either you have a higher chance of of Clearcasting to proc but a lower chance to crit, or a lower chance for CC to proc, but a higher Crit chance. Up to the hardcore theorycrafters that wanna do the numbers.
Frost:
http://www.wowtal.com/#k=1BG6aWTY.9q4.mage
Probably the hardest tree of the 3, as a lot of the talents are just bad imo. And are still very PVP orientated. I had 2 points that I didn't know what to do with, so I just put them in permafrost, though it might be good or better in imp CoC or imp. Freeze (if the eternal elemental glyph doesn't get rid of freeze in Cataclysm). Either way, it's still a pvp/trash spec so far.
Arcane:
http://www.wowtal.com/#k=1BG6aWTY.9q4.mage
Combining the slow effect to AB is pretty sweet, it'll make sure TTW is always proc'd for us. Mage's should be the main interrupters on bosses as it is a10% damage boost now (I think it was before on the old build too), unless other classes have something similar which boosts their damage after an interrupt. The only points I'd argue which could be swapped, and again, the theorycrafters will tell us, is whether or not 3% crit on all spells is better than 3% damage on AM. But i think crit would be better.
Thoughts?
edit: oh thank god... Wowhead went down as I tried to submit this
Post by
Matoriz
Yay, new build.
New build means I redo my idea for pve trees:
Fire:
http://www.wowtal.com/#k=ZY8WhTKi.9q4.mage
Blizz are jerks and are making us spec for Blastwave to pick up Combustion. Jerk move. The only thing I would argue about the build is whether to do 3/3 Clearcasting and 1/2 Arcane Potency, or 2/3 Clearcasting and 2/2 Arcane Potency.
Jerks? I love it.Blastwave ( and DB for LB) has always been my favourite spell since i got it. It's flashy and resourceful in the hands of a good mage. People complain because it isn't part of a single target rotation, but from what Blizz has told us so far, utility and "oh %^&*" moments are going to play a huge part in Cata.
Post by
Drefanator
It's because it's extremely situational. A good mage should have no reason to use it. Even in those OSHI- moments... The bad mages however are going to run into melee range, use it and piss of the tank.
I like DB and it makes sense as it even has a bit more range to it, but Blastwave doesn't help you since you probably still have aggro, or you just slow the mobs path to get to the tank.
Maybe if Blastwave had a talent that caused a stun after using, or the knockback was a bit more like thunderstorm (Oh god, the shamans would complain) I'd be happy. It's just silly to make us pick it atm.
Post by
311746
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
nickseng
That's not really different from now, most people just go to a site, and copy the highest dps spec from there. I think Blizz's intention is that they want less worry about maximizing and screwing your dps from talents, and instead made it so that it's skills that make the difference.
Post by
StrangerWifCandy
The dilemma now is that I have to decide whether it's worth it to give up Clearcasting for Blazing Speed.
Post by
Kokorazashi
The new
12604 build
is out. Will be updating the main post in a while, stay tuned. :P
Post by
ryan7395
Loving this build for Frost pvp.
Permanent Elemental (More freezes!)
Improved Cone of Cold (Even more freezes!)
Improved Counterspell
Blazing Speed
Post by
345952
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Kokorazashi
Just to give you guys a heads up if you haven't read the first post; the Wowhead tree revisions are now back up with the most recent patch. I strongly suggest you take a gander at the new trees and tell others what you think. I've been looking closely at the Arcane Tree and will be putting up some specs on the original post. Once you guys start putting up some more, I'll add them up.
Post by
skribs
I am actually a little confused about magi rotations, as they appear to be in cata in this build. Mind you, I'm just going based on the tooltips and talents, which don't account for a lot (e.g. SP coefficients and gear), but just a rough estimate. Here's what I see:
Arcane: Single target rotation will be ABx4-ABarr-AM, just to get the stacks for the AM and because ABarr doesn't use AB. It will guarantee that AM is up at the right time in the rotation, so you could just do 111123 and repeat. AoE is spam AE, i.e. 44444444444. Raiding mage pushes 4 buttons and only looks at how many mobs are up to decide which to hit. This would
Fire: Single target rotation will be spam scorch (+20% crit and 1.5 sec cast make it great for Hot Streak) and then hit instant pyros. So 1 until proc then 2, then back to 1. AoE will then be Flamestrike with a choice in filler between Living Bomb and Flame Orb (one is spammable, the other channeled, meaning whichever is more damage would be more obvious to use).
Frost: Single target rotation will actually involve some thought, monitoring FoF and BF procs. Who woulda thought frost would be the most complex? AoE suffers same problem as fire - which do you use between Blizzard or FFO? The one with the most damage, because they're both channeled and with talents can both apply a snare.
So magi are looking at 2 simple single target rotations, 1 simple AoE rotation, and 2 confusing AoE rotations, with only 1 polished spec. I think magi are going to need a lot more iteration, unless there's some mechanics behind the spells that I'm missing.
EDIT: To whoever was wondering between 2/3 CC + 2/2 AP vs. 3/3 CC + 1/2 AP, going for 2-2 will give you an average of 0.9% crit gain on next spell, 3-1 will be 0.7% crit gain. 3-2 will be 1.5% crit gain (so 5 points to increase your average crit by 1.5%, that's 0.3% per point, just for perspective). I'd say 3-1 if your focus is mana, 2-2 if your focus is damage.
Post by
Ahmi
Fire: Single target rotation will be spam scorch (+20% crit and 1.5 sec cast make it great for Hot Streak) and then hit instant pyros. So 1 until proc then 2, then back to 1. AoE will then be Flamestrike with a choice in filler between Living Bomb and Flame Orb (one is spammable, the other channeled, meaning whichever is more damage would be more obvious to use).
1. Spamming scorch as your primary nuke is a veeeery bad idea. Fire isn't going to be based on Hot Streak procs.
2. Neither Living Bomb, nor Flame Orb are channeled.
Post by
skribs
1. Not scorch as a primary nuke, but scorch as a means to make pyro my primary nuke. 20% crit is a lot, and 1-2 extra casts in that 6 second window can add up to significantly more procs. At least that's what I see right now when I look at it.
2. I was looking at the information
here
, which said channeled. I didn't say LB was channeled I said one was spammable and the other channeled.
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