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31-point talent tree N:th version.
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Post by
109094
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
skribs
0/31/2+8
includes all of the cat DPS talents. Keep in mind that 4 points (Thick Hide and Survival Instincts) are tank filler that I think helps, 3 points (Brutal Impact and LotP) are raid utility that may or may not be needed if someone else has interrupts or the aura covered, 3 talents (Feral Charge and Feral Swiftness) devoted to movement, and 4 talents (Imp FC and Predatory Strikes) devoted to increasing burst after movement.
This leaves only 19 of your 41 talent points actually buffing your DPS on a standstill Patchwerk-type fight (Ferocity, Fury Swipes, King of the Jungle, Endless Carnage, Rend and Tear, Nom Nom Nom, Berserk, and Blessing of the Grove). I'm going to assume LotP and the movement-based talents are mandatory as well (interrupts not as much because so many classes can handle that, usually the tank), which would then bump it up to 27 mandatory talents out of 41 talent points, giving you options for the other 14. In other words, 65.8% of the tree is "mandatory," The rest is filler/optional.
Furor is appealing after a brez or tranquility, but not mandatory if everything is going smooth. If Furor is grabbed, perseverance could make it easier on the healers. Infected Wounds could help if your tank doesn't have it, or you could grab the bear talents and be a viable off-tank. Maybe you want to be like I did, and grab Brutal Impact. Maybe you don't need it.
Compared to now, where
0/59/12
is almost purely spent buffing your DPS, and if you could spare another few points to get Master Shapeshifter you'd get more. (Keep in mind I don't remember the exact cookie cutter for top cat DPS, the point is that you have virtually no talents now to "choose.") So yes, the trees are smaller, but since you're getting less talents that are a DPS increase, and more that are a utility increase, you're getting more options.
Blizzard has said they want our choice not be between damage and utility, but between utility and utility. For example, on my DK I had to choose between talenting for 15% movement speed or 2% crit. In Cata, the goal is that you may be choosing between 15% movement speed and Anti-Magic Shell, or between damage reduction on spells (not required of a DPS, but makes it easier for the healer) and infected wounds (would help the tank, but the tank likely has a similar debuff). So instead of 58/11+2 type builds, where there's maybe 3 points of "filler" (and the filler/optional are all just the least powerful DPS-increasing talents) you would have an option for 31/5/5 or 34/0/7, where 10 points of the main tree are filler.
Like I said earlier - this makes the decision significantly easier for PvE (pick 20 or so talents right and you'll do max DPS), but much harder for PvP (because now EVERY talent is a PvP talent).
Post by
109094
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Post by
422325
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ignis86
see this only makes me feel MORE forced into stuff and no fun decisions... i HATE that theyre hacking them down that da
m
n far.
if anything could make me not keep playing... it might be this. we will have to see...
i didnt buy bc and wrath (and might not cata) to revert back to feeling like im in vanilla when it comes to talent trees... i personally liked seeing trees and knowing someone had no idea what they were doing just by looking at their trees.
Post by
pezz
I don't see the incentive for Fury of Stormrage. At all. Every other healer tree has talents that push them towards DPS abilities, yes, but they offer something by way of healing. The end goal of casting DPS spells is to make your healing better or more efficient or give you more mana or
something
. I mean, I
can
throw out a free Wrath, but I don't see why, in the context of my ability to heal, I would
want
to. I guess I might proc Nature's Grace, but if I really want to cast healing spells faster, I'd stop blowing GCDs on Wrath casts.
I guess it's either a leveling talent, or they haven't finished integrating it yet.
Post by
236yfpjkjhd
overall:
-push back reduction on healing isnt that great for a pve tree
Nothing wrong with having it.
-simplifying talent choices seems just like blizzard being lazy.
Define "lazy". Balancing three trees with 11 tiers' worth of talents in them against each other in both PvP and PvE without one of them being under- or overpowered in some situation isn't easy.
Not to mention balancing all the 10 classes against one another, that's 30 talent trees that needs to be balanced in respect to one another. Very very hard to accomplish.
real players knew how to optimize, and bad players were free to do what ever they wanted with their points
That's an idiotic argument. There's no valid reason to have crap talents thrown out in the trees like venus traps just so bad players could pick them out of ignorance and therefore underperform.
the absolute worst part is that upon hitting 10 and choosing your 1st point you are LOCKED into that tree until using 31 pts
Are you kidding? This is the best part of it all.
With the old system, Blizzard was forced to stick all the spec-defining abilities deep down in the tree so that you couldn't double-dip your points into multiple trees and create an OP hybrid (like druid trees with feral charge from TBC era for example or prep/mutilate rogues and so on).
This made leveling a boring drag. Did you ever make an enhance shammy? Basically you had ONE single attack to use while fighting until you hit level 40 and got stormstrike, and it wasn't even a melee ability. Then it was several more levels until lava lash, and then maelstrom weapon wasn't until the mid-50s before it started being useful.
Same with retpallys, crusader strike's what, level 40 right now? Then it's another giant wait until divine storm, and so on.
a lot less freedom while lvling
This is of no great concern. With the amount of work the entire leveling experience is receiving you can't possibly say with any amount of certainty that being locked to one single tree until 70 will hamper you in ANY WAY.
While it might seem as if you have less "freedom", it's a give-and-take matter of balance, and so far, give > take by a huge margin, with important abilities being given at level 10 instead of having to wait often dozens of levels with the current system.
also only getting a talent point every two levels is so eh. all this talk about player options and such and then forcing us into one tree which they then dumb down for us. yay.
Dumb down how?
Explain the superiority of receiving a talent point every level which you then put in around 10 different types of passive +1% crit/level talents and similar, versus getting a talent point every other-ish level which you don't have to put in those passive talents because they don't even exist anymore.
You can claim it sorts smart players from dumb ones until you go blue in the face, but when all it takes is reading a cookiecutter guide on the internet (and zero actual smarts) to find out which spec is the most efficient for a given situation, that argument kind of collapses under its own prepostrousness.
all in all it feels like early vanilla trees again.
Stop your incessant whining will you? Blizzard has already stated that the druid (along with several other classes) aren't as far along as the rest. That's why it looks rough - because IT IS.
But if you're so convinced all this is just because Blizzard is lazy, please go ahead and cancel your subscription. I'm sure you won't be missed.
Post by
skribs
The spec you linked had 33 points spent
I know. That's why it's 0/31/2+8 and not another number.
Id be willing to bet Primal Fury will continue to add combo points for cats and that its just an oversight (it is the alpha build afterall), thus making it mandatory
It's also possible that they decided to remove it because A) with haste affecting energy regen, we'll be building CPs faster, and B) with Primal Fury the way it is, most people stop at 4 CPs anyway. B may or may not be a bad thing, but it is counter intuitive IMO for it to be better to use less "stacks.
Primal Madness, if it actually adds an additional 20 energy, is mandatory.
My guess is that it works just like any other power gain (e.g. DMC:G Int proc), in that you'll go from 100/100 to 100/120.
The choice in utility you have is survival talents (not mandatory to put numbers on the meters, and you could likely get through the content without them, but it would make your healer's lives easier if you don't simply increase their overhealing - e.g. if they heal for 11k and you reduce a 10k AoE to 9.4k, you're increasing their overhealing on each AoE by 600), utility (such as Infected Wounds, in case the tank didn't want it), or other things. You could of course get a bear/cat hybrid spec, maybe missing Infected Wounds (assuming the warrior/pally/DK will have the debuff up) or another ability.
Post by
pelf
Crikey that is a horrible horrible feral tree.
I'm going to quote this and then not read anything else posted in this thread thus far. The best I could say is WTF and then I decided to look again next revision.
Post by
oberondreaming
The first two tiers of resto really suck for resto.
I ended up taking Furor just so, you know, I guess I can go cat and have some energy? (WTF seriously)
This
is pretty much the default Resto build. 9/0/31 + 1
But really, it's kind of lame in more than a few places.
I really hope these are super-alpha talent trees and aren't going to suck so much once they're finalized.
Post by
curlymon
Crikey that is a horrible horrible feral tree.
I'm going to quote this and then not read anything else posted in this thread thus far. The best I could say is WTF and then I decided to look again next revision.
Honestly, I think the best we can take out of this is that they removed 5/5 talents and the tree is indeed 31 points deep.
Absolutely nothing else worth mentioning.
Post by
615276
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
curlymon
If this is anything like what they are actually considering, they should just give you only 1 talant point for the entire game at level 10 with the following four choices: 1) Cat, 2) Bear, 3) Moonkin, 4) Resto.
I understand the direction of simplifying the talant tree's, but doing it to this degree has made even having the tree completely pointless. I also fully understands that this is not final and is subject to change (thank god), but this is easily the most asinine, sub-par, and heartbreaking failure of a new idea I've ever seen come from Blizzard. Also Blizzard, putting garbage idea's like this for people to preview doesn't exactally fill them with much confidence that the rest of Cata expansion will be any different. /superfail
The intention, if they manage to pull it off, actually has an incredible amount of promise.
Remove the fluff.
Keep the strong talents. (this makes each choice meaningful)
Add enough Variation that play style affects the talent build more then role.
Post by
oberondreaming
The intention, if they manage to pull it off, actually has an incredible amount of promise.
Remove the fluff.
Keep the strong talents. (this makes each choice meaningful)
Add enough Variation that play style affects the talent build more then role.
I absolutely agree in theory.
But, at least from a Resto perspective, the current trees don't have enough choices to be meaningful.
Not only am I being forced to take things that aren't useful to me (Furor) or of minimal use (Perseverance), I have enough points to pick up every remaining non-PvP, healing oriented talent. Where's the fun in that.
Post by
Falkor
If this is anything like what they are actually considering, they should just give you only 1 talant point for the entire game at level 10 with the following four choices: 1) Cat, 2) Bear, 3) Moonkin, 4) Resto.
I understand the direction of simplifying the talant tree's, but doing it to this degree has made even having the tree completely pointless. I also fully understands that this is not final and is subject to change (thank god), but this is easily the most asinine, sub-par, and heartbreaking failure of a new idea I've ever seen come from Blizzard. Also Blizzard, putting garbage idea's like this for people to preview doesn't exactally fill them with much confidence that the rest of Cata expansion will be any different. /superfail
post on official forums, pls. /agree
Post by
615276
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
oberondreaming
Removing the "Fluff" is removing choices
That's not
necessarily
true.
It's not like taking a +X% Damage talent or a +X% Healing talent was really a choice. If you wanted to do damage, or heal, you took them. That's not a choice.
If they just roll Thick Hide into bear form, then that's fine, because everyone who wanted to tank took it anyway (no choice about it).
The problem is that they don't have enough "fun" talents left for there to be choices about things. But hopefully that will change.
Post by
465276
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
djlowrider
Considering that up to now we've been voluntarily holding ourselves to pre-set "cookie cutter" specs that eschew what are deemed as less useful talents for optimal ones, all the new system is doing is making things that much easier on us. Frankly, I look forward to being able to come up with a viable spec without needing to read a 10-page thesis on what's optimal and why.
The new Feral talents are very straightfoward and it'll be nice to be able to effectively Bear tank and Cat DPS with roughly the same build. Maybe I'll get to offspec Balance for real again. It'll be interesting to see how things evolve from here, since there's no way these are anything close to what the final talents will look like.
Post by
615276
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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